Fischer 2015-2016 product line-up???

[MikeK]

The S-78 & S-88 are now under "off-track cruising". Hey Mike- you going to make a video just like your favourite one last season?

Haha! No! Mine are still good 'ole S Bounds, so no froofy snowball fights for me.

They will be my main touring skis though, and off track at that, because I doubt they'd fit in a machine track. I'll also try to see how they work on some hills, but I expect I'm going to favor my S98 over them.

[lilcliffy]

Yeah- 70mm is about the absolute limit for a groomed classic track.

Will be very interested in your perspective on the S-78 versus Eon.

What length did you get again?

[MikeK]

I went as long as I could. 199cm.

Oddly enough 199cm is not 1 cm shorter than my 200cm Glittertinds. They are significantly shorter, I'd say like 4 or 5 cm.

[bgregoire]

Anybody tried the "Easy-skin", or Asnes' "skin lock"? (Fischer ripped off Asnes by the way).

Have not tried them per say but have played around with the asnes and talked to several people about them in sweden. The attachment is metal,simple and robust and does not stick out the other side.. I would count on them on any mutiday trip. As for the Fishers, they are plastic and the widget sticks out of the top of the ski. They do not seem as robust. By the way, they are a huge improvement over the BD half-skins for touring as there is not metal plate underneath that sticks out and negatively affect glide or edging.

What sucks is that Fischer refuses to make waxable versions of the their fatter single-cambered XCD skis.

That's it. But Fischer is not alone here, unfortunately.

Getting back to half-skin traplock on wide waxless skis (mean for turning), as you already have decent grip with the scales for low angled approaches, really, if your going to invest in a skin for yo-yoing (and the time to put them on and off every run), make it a full skin and expand your skiing territory. If you need just a little more grip with the scales (and can avoid using the full skins), slap a couple inches of grip wax above the scales or work on you climbing technique. You know, at the end of the climb, full skin, or half skins, your going to have to take it off anyhow to enjoy the down. Avoiding to use a skins at all on the lower angled approaches should be a major objective (freedom!). And my experience mostly shows me, that with proper technique and wax, this is usually possible.

Now, for hut to hut touring or ski camping, I have a totally different approach. half skins can be a great companion. But then again, i would never take a 90mm+ wide skis on such a tour. i like it light and fast.

So there, half-skin traplocks on wider turning skis, buh.

[lilcliffy]

Very good points Greg.

I too regularly use grip wax on my waxless powder skis (currently Annum and Eon). Although there are poor snow conditions where waxless traction is adequate and preferred- most days I am underwhelmed by waxless traction. Kick wax gives you traction and glide- that's some high tech stuff!

It would probably make too much sense to encourage skiers to get over their grip-wax phobia. No- instead- create an illusion that grip waxing is an insanely complex art- only suitable for high-performance track skiing. And then provide an "easy", "high-tech" solution to strap on a kicker skin for low-angle climbing (you can also make extra cash form this of course).

Yeah- the Asnes design greatly improves the glide phase of a kicker skin. I have not personally inspected the Asnes system- but I do know that people regularly use it on extreme expeditions in the polar regions. I am with you- I would trust the reliability and performance of the Asnes "skin-lock". Fischer needs to prove it's "easy-skin" before I would trust it- I have inspected it in the shop- not convinced yet.

I am with you on a light backcountry-xcountry setup for hut-to-hut/winter camping/trekking/touring. My "difficulty" is that my wife always wants to bring gear that allows us to jump off a cliff or two on the way to the camp site!

As far as a ski for your winter trekking- are you using a double-cambered ski? E-99?

I am trying to find my preferred K&G performance for long distance touring. I am not thrilled with the Eon as a purely xcountry ski. I ended up buying those Asnes combat skis from Coleman's. Looking forward to testing them this winter against the Eon. Eventually I hope to have a waxabe E-109- or even better an Ingstad! I would prefer more flotation than an E-99/Glittertind for my typical snow conditions.

[Teleman]

Agree that learning how to set up an up trail on any kind of bottom is key....Any kind of skin will lead to a more straight line up....Wax means contouring....playing with what nature has and you figuring how to make it work for us....Each year we set early tracks on a particular hill that has a zillion possible ways down....But going up and setting it for wax is a masters job.....No kick turns....low angle....zig as long as one can then head back in a long upward zag....So good that you can look around while gaining altitude....Even have a conversation!!!!.....Solo is quiet and non sweat inducing as well as dressing well....On the top no skin hassles....Pop a shot of water and with almost no time spent your off on an adventure, heading who knows where....but enjoying the ride....TM

[Woodserson]

For the record, the ski price has stayed the same, the skins run around $50 depending on the seller.

I agree with much of the above conversation. Seems like there are applications, but I'd be just as happy with a little different technique and some grip wax and a full length skin for the steep stuff. I'm just looking to get the ski since I missed the boat last year. According to the local shop, the 78 and 88 are still the same ski, just rebranded into the Off-Track category, but I still can't shake the stigma of that goddamm video either.

Anyway, I love my 78's, Mike I think you will too. Coming from Fischer, I have always found the Madshus to run long, so it's natural you're going to see it from the other way.

I strongly agree with lilcliffy and his assessment of the demonization of waxing skis for grip. I think I wrote some big diatribe about it last year. I'm knocking my head against the wall on this one, especially since TOKO has such a simple 3 wax system that WORKS as long as you're not racing in spandex. ROAWR. It's not magic.

Teleman... sounds awesome.

[bgregoire]

As far as a ski for your winter trekking- are you using a double-cambered ski? E-99?

I am trying to find my preferred K&G performance for long distance touring. I am not thrilled with the Eon as a purely xcountry ski. I ended up buying those Asnes combat skis from Coleman's. Looking forward to testing them this winter against the Eon. Eventually I hope to have a waxabe E-109- or even better an Ingstad! I would prefer more flotation than an E-99/Glittertind for my typical snow conditions.

I often use E99s. They are great for touring. I tried the newer E-109s. Just as light as the E99 and better control on the down. They are an Awesome ski! The Asnes skis, i believe, are generally stiffer than the fisher equivalents, so quicker on packed snow, the type of conditions you should expect in Scandinavia. If your into deeper, fluffier stuff, how should be happier with the more available Fishers.

[lilcliffy]

Yeah- the camber and flex of many of the Asnes skis appear to be stiff and double-cambered. I am under the impression that a ski like the Amundsen is specifically designed for long-distance trekking in the polar regions- dense wind-packed snow and a heavy load.

But- the Ingstad/Combat Nato at least appears to be quite different. It is rockered in the tip, and is described as having a "moderate wax pocket". The Ingstad is certainly more cambered than an S-Bound or a Madshus/Karhu XCD; but I don't think that it is as stiff and cambered as the narrower Asnes. When I spoke to a tech at the Norseman shop in Calgary, their description of the Ingstad, sounded a lot like my experience with the E-109. My impression of the Ingstad and the E-109 is that they offer better K&G performance than the softer Eon.

However- my main disappointment with the Eon may turn out to be simply "kick" and glide traction. I have found a good deal on a 205cm waxable Eon- I am thinking I will get them to compare against the waxless.

I have those waxable Asnes Combat skis from Coleman's ($15USD!). They have a very traditional double camber (i.e. no rocker in the tip)- but they are certainly not as stiff as double-cambered skis designed for hard-packed snow and/or heavy loads. Despite the lack of tip rocker, I expect that they will have similar K&G performance to a waxable E-109 or Ingstad.

I expect the Eons to be easier to turn than the Coleman Asnes- due to both a softer flex, and tip rocker.

The tip rocker in the E-109 and the Ingstad, with double-camber underfoot, may just make them the ultimate long-distance touring ski in fresh snow. Enough camber for efficient K&G, but enough flex, with open-tip, for reasonable downhill performance.

[bgregoire]

Lilcliffy,

have you had a look at all the skis offered by Asnes? I would compare fisher & asnes as such, from hardpack k&g to soft snow-floatation:

Holmenkollen, E-89, Gamme 54, Admunsen, E-99, Nansen, E-109 (older), E-109 (new), Ingstad, Explorer.

The ingstag is basically the modern version of the white combat ski (Combat Nato) with an image slapped on top.

Ingstad or E-109? I think you would be happy with either or. I would skip the older E-109 though as its heavier and stiffer than the newer version though.

I've been using some old Karhu 10th MTN or such for the type of skiing you are writing about. 68mm underfoot and no more than 83-85mm wide at the tip (forget the precise measurements). Nice camber and WAXABLE. They are awesome in soft and think snow!