Crispi Svartisen GTX 75mm

[MikeK]

(On another note- the internet is full of user-reports of pre-mature sole separation with the 75mm model).

One big reason I went for the Alaska 75mm right from the start.

[lilcliffy]

The most recent generation is the one that Ben is referring to above- with the velcro strap above the ankle. This is also the version depicted in the photo, in the referenced UTE article (i.e. they are brown/grey colored).

The previous generation (the one I own) is a lace-up design above the ankle (strangely- this is the generation depicted in the UTE photo- can't imagine why they would compare NNNBC vs 75mm models from different product generations- perhaps it is just a mistake with the photos?).

Ops- got that backwards- my mind often switches opposites- drives me nuts...

The photos of the Fischer NNNBC in the UTE article is of the older generation model (i.e. grey/black).

[lilcliffy]

Cool article.
IMHO the Svartisen 75mm offers more support than the Alaska BC, and far more support than the Alaska 75mm. For me, I guess, even if the sole was stiffer on the Alaska BC, that isn't everything. The added ankle support provides a greater deal of stability for me as well.

Interesting and relevant comment...do you mean above-ankle support?

I ask this because I find that the Alaska NNNBC is very stiff, torsionally- from the ankle down.

My impression is that the Svartissen offers more support above the ankle.

This torsional strength, above the ankle, clearly offers greater strength and leverage- especially to steer a ski.

That added rigidness above the ankle must come at a cost of reduced flexibility and extension of the instep. This reduced flexibility and extension are bound to reduce kick and glide performance.

For many, obviously, strength and leverage above the angle, in order to steer skis- is worth the reduced K&G performance. (I am starting to suspect that softening the sole-flex of 75mm boots is an attempt to compensate for this).

The Alaska is soft above the ankle- in order to optimize instep flexibility and extension- in order to optimize K&G performance. IMO the Alaska has a relatively stiff sole flex, and is torsionally-rigid from the ankle down- first and foremost to deliver K&G stability in variable backcountry snow/terrain.

However- I do find that focusing on striding technique, rather than steering technique- I can also use the "below-the-ankle" stability and stiff sole flex for downhill skiing.

What I remain unsure about is how far can I push the boundaries of striding down a hill?

In other words- everyone must have a limit where the terrain/snow conditions are challenging enough to necessitate steering over striding down a hill.

IMHO- once you are steering a ski down a hill (rather than striding), with a relatively rigid boot (above the ankle)- the lines between Alpine and Nordic technique can easily become blurred.

[MikeK]

Cool article.
IMHO the Svartisen 75mm offers more support than the Alaska BC, and far more support than the Alaska 75mm. For me, I guess, even if the sole was stiffer on the Alaska BC, that isn't everything. The added ankle support provides a greater deal of stability for me as well.

Interesting and relevant comment...do you mean above-ankle support?

Yes sir - exactly.

I ask this because I find that the Alaska NNNBC is very stiff, torsionally- from the ankle down.

My impression is that the Svartissen offers more support above the ankle.

Correct. My observation is the same. I believe the weak point in all these 75mm light boots is right at the flex where a bellows would be on a plastic boot. The NNN sole (on the Alaska) is thicker in this point, and thus stiffer in both bending and torsion.

This torsional strength, above the ankle, clearly offers greater strength and leverage- especially to steer a ski.

That added rigidness above the ankle must come at a cost of reduced flexibility and extension of the instep. This reduced flexibility and extension are bound to reduce kick and glide performance.

Correct. It seems to me with the cuff you can drive the ski with your knee more or less... it's really much less than say an alpine boot where you put pressure on the tongue and can just crank the ski around. It's really a far cry from that but it does give a little bit of leverage in rolling the ski on edge - fore and aft stability is still very, very soft.

I don't notice the Svartisen impedes my stride all that much. This is my first season with it and I've only used it a handful of times, and the conditions I have been using it are on hillier terrain, deep snow, or breaking trail with my wide skis. It's not my choice for fast kick and glide.

For many, obviously, strength and leverage above the angle, in order to steer skis- is worth the reduced K&G performance. (I am starting to suspect that softening the sole-flex of 75mm boots is an attempt to compensate for this).

The Alaska is soft above the ankle- in order to optimize instep flexibility and extension- in order to optimize K&G performance. IMO the Alaska has a relatively stiff sole flex, and is torsionally-rigid from the ankle down- first and foremost to deliver K&G stability in variable backcountry snow/terrain.

It certainly is softer, warmer and more comfortable but I'm not convinced there is a huge difference between the Alaska and Svartisen 75mm for kick and glide. It really comes down to the ski you are on IMO. On a light, narrow ski - the Alaska feels great. On a heavier, wider ski it starts to not feel as good. You really need to think about every move, and how you pressure the ski. In a sense it's more close to being just on the ski, and not leveraging it with the boots. The widest ski I have is the Eon for NNN BC, but it feels every bit as solid and stable as the Svartisen does on a a wider ski. I suspect that if I had an Eon with 75mm and tried the Alaska, I'd immediately notice the difference in the the 75mm. On say a Voss with NNN, and the a Glittertind with the 75mm, the difference is almost imperceptible to me. The skis themselves are not super fast striders, or great turners and the boots don't really shine much at one or the other. Both can do well enough for BC trail skiing IMO. Comes down to preference from there I think.

However- I do find that focusing on striding technique, rather than steering technique- I can also use the "below-the-ankle" stability and stiff sole flex for downhill skiing.

What I remain unsure about is how far can I push the boundaries of striding down a hill?

I've been trying to tackle short, but steep runs with the NNN boots and bindings since I've got them. I don't do any better or worse than I do with the 3 pins, except when I go to more turny ski, and boot, and even then conditions are everything.

It just so happened I was out on some very crusty, hard snow with my Eons and Alaska NNN the other day trying some xcD. It wasn't fun - it wouldn't have been fun with a Svartisen and S98 either. It just wasn't good snow. I was able to ski down and make stemmed turns, and control my speed for the most part, usually just focusing on keeping on my edges and traversing... but it wasn't elegant or pretty. I just didn't feel stable enough on the snow to drop my knee, or try to really horse the skis in a skidded parallel - either would have taken too much commitment. Later in the day the snow started to soften a bit and I felt a lot more confident.

In other words- everyone must have a limit where the terrain/snow conditions are challenging enough to necessitate steering over striding down a hill.

IMHO- once you are steering a ski down a hill (rather than striding), with a relatively rigid boot (above the ankle)- the lines between Alpine and Nordic technique can easily become blurred.

In my example above I would have cranked right down that snow with Alpine gear. It wouldn't have even been a challenge. But I was out in a field with about 50' vertical. Who's going to use AT gear for that? Best off just ski through it and off to something else. If I was really in challenging, icy, steep conditions and there was no other way to pass I'd just sidestep, and/or sideslip down it until I got where I needed to go. We can't expect to be mountaineers on light, slightly fat XC skis. They definitely have their limits. Personally I just throw a set of crampons in my pack, even on easy terrain if I think the conditions are sketchy. I'll just take the damn skis off and walk if it gets too hard!

[montrealer]

I almost want to get a pair of Fischer BCX6 now - I may not really like them but I'd like to compare and see what works for best for me.

I'd say save the expense. The Alaska is a better boot overall. I own both in NNNBC and can answer any of your specific questions regarding both. The thing with the Fischer is that the lacing ends way too low on the boot. Above the ankle, all you got is a big velcro that just does not tighten sufficiently (eventhough the external plastic support which is also velcro helps some). It might be beefy but the tightening system is so poor that you can't even use all of what the boot has to offer (i'm considering modifying it by adding lacing up the foot).

Seconded. I am very disappointed with the tightening on these. I've thought of adding more of the soft velcro for fastening the plastic cuff. How would you go about adding new lacing?

[bgregoire]

Seconded. I am very disappointed with the tightening on these. I've thought of adding more of the soft velcro for fastening the plastic cuff. How would you go about adding new lacing?

Without a cobbler's better advice, I would have one punch in 4 lacing hooks, 1 at each of the four velcro tab attachments. If it tightens well, I guess I might also consider removing the velcro from the tab to ease tightening with the laces. Might need to change laces to to make them longer as well, I would also go for flat laces so they stay tight. any better ideas?

[montrealer]

Without a cobbler's better advice, I would have one punch in 4 lacing hooks, 1 at each of the four velcro tab attachments. If it tightens well, I guess I might also consider removing the velcro from the tab to ease tightening with the laces. Might need to change laces to to make them longer as well, I would also go for flat laces so they stay tight. any better ideas?

hmm, so you mean you would close that velcro think and then hook + tie the laces outside of it? looks like that would work.

My only other idea is extending the velcro on the plastic cuff to make it possible to pull the velcro tighter.

[bgregoire]

hmm, so you mean you would close that velcro think and then hook + tie the laces outside of it? looks like that would work.

My only other idea is extending the velcro on the plastic cuff to make it possible to pull the velcro tighter.

I think that is what I meant. Anyhow, I'll visit my local cobbler, see what I can do and perhaps post a pic sometime this spring?

[lilcliffy]

MikeK,

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought the Svartissen was in the same class as a plastic Nordic touring boot. I see it in the same class as the Alaska- heavy-duty backcountry-xcountry/light-duty XCD-telemark.

Within this XCD class; my impression is that the performance of Svartissen is slightly weighted towards downhill steering- the Alaska is slightly weighted towards XC striding.

I see the Crispi Stetind NNNBC as being designed to meet the exact same performance requirements as the Alpina Alaska NNNBC.

[MikeK]

MikeK,

I didn't mean to give the impression that I thought the Svartissen was in the same class as a plastic Nordic touring boot. I see it in the same class as the Alaska- heavy-duty backcountry-xcountry/light-duty XCD-telemark.

Within this XCD class; my impression is that the performance of Svartissen is slightly weighted towards downhill steering- the Alaska is slightly weighted towards XC striding.

I see the Crispi Stetind NNNBC as being designed to meet the exact same performance requirements as the Alpina Alaska NNNBC.

No no, nor did I. Just trying to fill in some blanks with what I've learned (and observed with my wife) this season.

I'd surely agree with your second statement, although I think the Svartisen does fine for striding with wider skis, which feel the benefit of it's added stiffness, and are slow enough not feel impeded by it. But yes generally it's more of a match for xcD skis.

Unless I tried the NNN BC versions of the Svartisen, I couldn't comment. I have a feeling it would stride pretty darn well, and provide good support for turns. The duckbill thickness difference is perhaps the smoking gun in my mind between the Alaska 75 and the Svartisen 75. The flexion of the rear of the boot behind the heel may be a slight impediment to the Svartisen, but I have a hard time feeling it in use. I suppose it depends on how sensitive you are. I also keep the upper strap fairly loose unless I'm descending something more serious. It's pretty easy to adjust on the fly.