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75mm boot shims.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:31 am
by wabene
The leaves are turning and snow will be here soon. Very exciting!
My 3 pin bindings are all Voile which have worked well on my Crispi, Alico and Fischer boots. They all have thicker duckbills. I just picked up a like new, used pair of lightweight and soft Merrell boots I want to try for longer and mellow adventures cruising mostly flats with my Gammes and Åsnes woodies.
The duckbill is only 12mm, thus too thin for the Voile's. I'm racking my brain trying to come up with a shim solution. I thought about glueing a piece of bicycle tire inner tube to the top of the bill, but I think that would be too thin and require many layers. Any ideas on something a little thicker that would still cut easy to cut to shape? I need to make up 4mm to get in the Voile's 16mm bottom spec.
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 10:44 am
by bark-eater
Good hardware stores have sheets of orange hard rubber gasket material in different thicknesses. I might try and cut a larger piece to pad the bindings bail, and attach with zipties when in use.
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 11:06 am
by lowangle al
I also would put the spacer on the bail, otherwise I would put some 3pin xc bindings on the wood Asnes and have a proper set up dedicated to xc.
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:20 pm
by wabene
To follow up after exhausting materials I had laying around such as a tile shim, I went online. I ended up ordering a small sheet of shoe sole rubber that is 5mm thick. I will glue that to the top of the duckbill. This should look good, maybe even original and will make it so I can just pop the boots on any skis with Voile 3 pins. The duckbill will be 17mm thick. Then we can see how well the old glue in the boots holds up
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2022 8:43 pm
by phoenix
I'll be curious to hear how that works out for you.
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:50 pm
by jalp
wabene wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:20 pm
To follow up after exhausting materials I had laying around such as a tile shim, I went online. I ended up ordering a small sheet of shoe sole rubber that is 5mm thick. I will glue that to the top of the duckbill. This should look good, maybe even original and will make it so I can just pop the boots on any skis with Voile 3 pins. The duckbill will be 17mm thick. Then we can see how well the old glue in the boots holds up
I think that the shoe sole rubber is a good call. I made similar shims for my Alaska 75 last season out of 2mm vinyl. That gave me a total of 17mm and good clamping pressure with the Voile 3PC. Prep work was key to getting them to stay on for any length of time.
I'd recommend:
1. Wiping with isopropyl alcohol to remove any residue.
2. Scuffing the mating surfaces with 100 grit sand paper.
3. Flame treat the mating surfaces.
4. Using Shoe Goo and clamp them in place for at least 24 hours.
5. Leave a little space between the shim and the toe rand. If no space, when the duckbill flexes, it'll push at the shim edge and cause the glue joint to begin to fail at the rand. I noticed this happening after my first day testing them out.
Using the above, the shims held well for several trips, probably 25-30 miles total. They may have been good for longer but I ultimately decided to change my Voile 3PC out in favor of the RST Cable bindings so, no longer need the extra thickness. The shims were still holding well when I peeled them off.
Good luck!
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2022 5:18 pm
by wabene
jalp wrote: ↑Sat Oct 08, 2022 4:50 pm
wabene wrote: ↑Tue Oct 04, 2022 2:20 pm
To follow up after exhausting materials I had laying around such as a tile shim, I went online. I ended up ordering a small sheet of shoe sole rubber that is 5mm thick. I will glue that to the top of the duckbill. This should look good, maybe even original and will make it so I can just pop the boots on any skis with Voile 3 pins. The duckbill will be 17mm thick. Then we can see how well the old glue in the boots holds up
I think that the shoe sole rubber is a good call. I made similar shims for my Alaska 75 last season out of 2mm vinyl. That gave me a total of 17mm and good clamping pressure with the Voile 3PC. Prep work was key to getting them to stay on for any length of time.
I'd recommend:
1. Wiping with isopropyl alcohol to remove any residue.
2. Scuffing the mating surfaces with 100 grit sand paper.
3. Flame treat the mating surfaces.
4. Using Shoe Goo and clamp them in place for at least 24 hours.
5. Leave a little space between the shim and the toe rand. If no space, when the duckbill flexes, it'll push at the shim edge and cause the glue joint to begin to fail at the rand. I noticed this happening after my first day testing them out.
Using the above, the shims held well for several trips, probably 25-30 miles total. They may have been good for longer but I ultimately decided to change my Voile 3PC out in favor of the RST Cable bindings so, no longer need the extra thickness. The shims were still holding well when I peeled them off.
Good luck!
Thanks jalp, good advice with expansion joint between the shim and the rand.
Dang I wish I had come across the changed Voile binding threads/arguments/rants from way back in 2014 before I put this binding on 5 pairs of skis! Ah well no turning back now and it is only this one boot that's too thin. I just picked up some like new/used Norwegian welted Heierling's and the bill is 17-18mm, so just fine.
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:42 am
by Rodbelan
I did the same with 2 voile 3 pin bindings... I glued a stiff, thick, leather piece to act as a shim. It worked fine. I'll need to reglue them after 2 seasons...
Since the bail is in steel (the rest of the body is in aluminium), I could probably weld a shim in place—I'll never use a plastic boot with these (mounted on Glittertinds). I could make two small parts... It wouldn't add weight significantly. I'll have to check further. I could also remove the bail, plug the holes (Tig welding) et redrill in lower position. Did I mention that welding is a passion for me? LOL
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:58 pm
by wabene
The boot shim project is complete. I could've spent more time cleaning up the rough edges with the belt sander etc, but whatever they are good enough.
First I cut out the rubber from some paper templates.
Got set up with the black shoe goo and applicator.
A little rough but glued on.
Cleaned up and measuring about 17.5mm so it's pretty tight on the second click of the Voile 3PC.
These are, I think, pretty old boots. We will see how they hold up. The are quite comfortable and light. As you can see this is a Merrill sole not Vibram and I don't think there is any metal reinforcing the holes. They could end up being a good candidate for smile plates
Re: 75mm boot shims.
Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2022 12:01 am
by Chisana
Nice work! I have owned several pair of these merrill 3pins and unfortunately,as they aged, the glue holding the sole to the upper failed. Other. Than that, they were a great option for 3pin kick and glide. I wish merrill still made them. The only thing I can find with a similar duckbill today are whitewoods,which are available at a very good price, but not very durable and the soles on larger sizes (12 and above) won't fit in most groomed classic trails.