75mm or Tech for waxless?

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stilltryin
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75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by stilltryin » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:30 am

A friend is considering wide waxless (e.g., Voile UltraVector). He has 75mm boots and boots that would work with the Voile TTS binding. I have no experience with the latter kind of binding. One advantage of waxless is that you don't mess with skins if you are meadow skipping the hills. When you have a simple 3-pin binding, you don't even mess with the binding (i.e., switching free pivot or not). So I wonder how well the tech binding works for the gradual ups and downs. Do you have to keep switching? Is free pivot ok for the gradual short downhill parts, and is "not free" reasonable for the gradual short uphill parts? (I suspect that a 75mm with free pivot would be similar in this regard to the TTS?)
Thanks for your thoughts on this.

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lowangle al
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by lowangle al » Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:37 am

I almost never use free pivot with my scaled skis for meadow skipping or K&G. I only use it for skinning.





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connyro
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by connyro » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:14 am

FWIW, I use Vector bcs with switchback bindings and I don't mind k+g with the free pivot. It takes a little to adjust but works quite well with the right technique. Free pivot for downhill can work too if you just parallel turn when needed as opposed to tele turns for short sections. It's not ideal but beats fiddling with skis for just a short dh





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stilltryin
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by stilltryin » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:34 am

Thanks.
Good to hear both responses -- sounds like there is enough variation in what each setting can handle that he won't have to be constantly adjusting and will find what works for him. I assume/hope this applies to TTS as well as switchbacks.





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jyw5
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by jyw5 » Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:28 pm

Tech bindings imo are pretty worthless for meadow skipping. We use various heavy setups (big boots big bindings) for mountaineering with skins on for going up and down. usually for steep icy and/or glacier ascents and descents with full wall to wall skins on. i would stick with 3pin or NNN BC with WL skis for hills and nontechnical routes...I use my WL skis late spring and summer with a small kicker skin when its icy...and many times just leave them on all day. with enough practice and good conditions, you can ski some pretty steep stuff free heel with or without skins on either setup.

basic 3pin bindings weigh less than a pound vs 2-3+ pounds for beefy bindings. You don't need the added weight nor cables for hills. You also get a good amt of stability and driving force from plastic boots vs leather.

I would choose 75mm over tech if you don't plan on steep skiing or technical ascents/descents as the beefy TTS or switchback weights much more and you are wasting time on transitions and fiddling with the bindings/boots...time that can be spent skiing!
I would get the switchbacks for steep skiing in the backcountry or at the resort...saw someone on Voile V6 and switchbacks just killing it down a narrow 1000ft chute earlier this season.

and lastly, its way cheaper to buy and mount light 3pin bindings. If I had good fitting 75mm leather boots, I would never use anything else except for mountaineering and big steep lines.


disclosure:
(fyi, I have a strong bias against heavy setups for day trips and nontechnical routes. I own an AT setup that I only used 4 days in 2020 on 2 big climbs (and never locked down either)...and that setup hasn't left the garage since May 2020...I have skiied alot of vertical and over 150 days since June 2020 on NNN and NNN BC only). So YMMV.





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Shenanagains
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by Shenanagains » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:00 pm

I think the answer depends more on the exact boots in question. If the 75mm boots are T1's, and the Tech boots are F1's then the Tech boots would be the clear winner, hence get the binding suited to the softest flexing boots.

Free pivot does in fact work quite well for K&G on wide waxless skis, maybe better than 3-pins. Pins, in plastic boots create too much forward resistance for optimum K&G, free pivot too little. Which is closer to your ideal is quite subjective.

B&D makes a TTS type adapter that is intended for light use, might be the '3-pin of Tech'. Scroll to bottom of page:

http://www.bndskigear.com/adapters.html

Disclosure- I've never used a TTS system of any kind.





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spopepro
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by spopepro » Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:46 am

More than anything, this depends on boots. The supply of light, good ROM boots with pins and bellows is getting scarce. Even though it feels like the selection of 75mm boots is dwindling it’s still better than what’s out there for TTS unless you feel like lugging a TXpro or shiver around.

For true meadow skipping a 3 pin with no cables is great. I only get frustrated with it when things are steep enough to both feel hard resistance on the ups, and scary for control on the down. I did a skimo race with my objectives (3pin no cables) and was fast enough on the ups, but had a couple of dangerous falls on the steep icy descents.

I haven’t yet tried to ski just at pins downhill yet, but soon. I’m about to put AT bindings on some waxless ingstads, F1 race boots, no tts. So I don’t have useful feedback yet.





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lilcliffy
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 am

spopepro wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:46 am
I haven’t yet tried to ski just at pins downhill yet, but soon. I’m about to put AT bindings on some waxless ingstads, F1 race boots, no tts. So I don’t have useful feedback yet.
So- you mean a tech toe- Telemark boot with tech inserts- and no resistance of any kind (i.e. cable, flexor, etc.)?
For downhill skiing?
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.





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spopepro
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by spopepro » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:57 am

lilcliffy wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:05 am
spopepro wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:46 am
I haven’t yet tried to ski just at pins downhill yet, but soon. I’m about to put AT bindings on some waxless ingstads, F1 race boots, no tts. So I don’t have useful feedback yet.
So- you mean a tech toe- Telemark boot with tech inserts- and no resistance of any kind (i.e. cable, flexor, etc.)?
For downhill skiing?
Yep. My hope (hope...) is that if it’s low angle enough to not need skins then I can skip transitions entirely and just use at pins. If it’s steep, I lock the heels when I rip skins.

Honestly... I have no idea how well this will all work. I know splitboarders who will kind of hack-tele rollers instead of transitioning and that’s the closest I’ve really got. My goals are kind of narrow though... light weight (boots, bindings, skis are under 5kg all together) good flat efficiency, and stability in occasional sections of 40-45deg slopes. I’ll be sure to report when I get some time on it. It might be terrible!





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stilltryin
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Re: 75mm or Tech for waxless?

Post by stilltryin » Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:03 pm

Just saying "thanks" -- very helpful.





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