More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
User avatar
Telecat
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:03 pm
Location: Catskills, NY
Ski style: Resort telemark, backcountry XC
Has liked: 1 time

More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by Telecat » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:25 pm

so there were a couple times last season, mostly with icy snow where my XCd skis didn't grip very well when kicking.

I see BD kicker skins available on that website that shall not be named (okay its backcountry.com) for half off.

Being new to XC skiing in general, would these be a good solution to those icier days?

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1308
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 4 times

More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by bgregoire » Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:41 pm

Perhaps, might actually be too grippy or not enough with the skins, plus those metal clips at the front might really bite. Get yourself a pair and expérimenté, things get harder to predict when the snow goes south


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by bgregoire on Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 914
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Occupation: Construction Manager
Has liked: 39 times
Been liked: 9 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by fisheater » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:28 pm

You can apply kick wax in front of the scales, right up to the tip. It will increase grip. Applying kick wax behind the scales, or behind the boot heel regardless offers no assistance. Although it will drag!

User avatar
Telecat
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:03 pm
Location: Catskills, NY
Ski style: Resort telemark, backcountry XC
Has liked: 1 time

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by Telecat » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:48 pm

I did think of kick waxing over the scales, but i assumed it would be super annoying to get out later. Waxing in front of the scales might help a bit. How would it not negatively effect the glide if its in front of the scales (where the wax pocket would be in a wax ski)?

also is there a "universal" kick wax that will work for most conditions. Assuming it's not as important to be super precise given its already a waxless ski

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1308
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 4 times

More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by bgregoire » Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:56 pm

In my experience, depending on conditions, grip waxed tips can really slow me down. I’m a fan of universal wax but my version ain’t no good on ice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Last edited by bgregoire on Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 914
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Occupation: Construction Manager
Has liked: 39 times
Been liked: 9 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by fisheater » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:48 pm

I routinely extend the wax from my wax pocket to the tip of the ski to achieve more grip. If a particular wax does not have enough grip for kick and glide, I do not ever recall a time that that wax caused drag by extending to the tip. Using the same theory as waxable skis, start with cold wax and if that doesn’t work go warmer.
As far as waxing waxless skis. Hot wax with Swix Polar white. While still liquid, use a paper towel to wipe the scales. That will leave wax on the scales while leaving the “scales” clean. As far as the scales go, you could follow the same process with hit glide wax. For the non-scaled portion of the ski, a quick scrap and cork in. Polar provides grip and glide. For better information on this method refer to the following thread:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2172

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1308
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 4 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by bgregoire » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:01 pm

fisheater wrote:I routinely extend the wax from my wax pocket to the tip of the ski to achieve more grip. If a particular wax does not have enough grip for kick and glide, I do not ever recall a time that that wax caused drag by extending to the tip. Using the same theory as waxable skis, start with cold wax and if that doesn’t work go warmer.
As far as waxing waxless skis. Hot wax with Swix Polar white. While still liquid, use a paper towel to wipe the scales. That will leave wax on the scales while leaving the “scales” clean. As far as the scales go, you could follow the same process with hit glide wax. For the non-scaled portion of the ski, a quick scrap and cork in. Polar provides grip and glide. For better information on this method refer to the following thread:
https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2172
Fisheater, why bother extending a wax that does not have enough grip for kick and glide? The op is looking for a solution for more grip. A grippy grip wax extended forward with help with grip but it inevitably also slows one down somewhat, including on icy conditions. No?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 914
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Occupation: Construction Manager
Has liked: 39 times
Been liked: 9 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by fisheater » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:20 pm

Ben, what I have learned to do from reading the pages here is before going to a warmer wax, to extend the wax pocket. I have found this method to work. I will also add, that I live in a climate that could be considered difficult to use wax. For the past few years I have used nothing but waxable skis.
My approach to the OP was to offer the waxing plan I use by extending the wax pocket, with the knowledge that the waxless pocket will only have the grip it has, that doesn’t change. Wax in front of that waxless pattern can offer more grip, while still gliding nicely. I offered my advice with the caveat to use colder wax first only going warmer when the colder wax does not offer grip.
Ben I don’t put on the miles near home that you do, as I always have periods of bare ground in winter. I also have never had the multi day (week?) adventures you have had. I do not claim your experience. However, I would have never even thought about having skinny skis, or waxable skis. I have and enjoy both, all because of the men that share their experiences here on Telemark Talk. I’m just trying to give back by sharing what I have learned.

User avatar
bgregoire
Posts: 1308
Joined: Fri Aug 22, 2014 9:31 am
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring with lots of turns
Favorite Skis: Fisher E99, Åsnes Ingstad & Cecilie, K2 Wayback 88
Favorite boots: Crispi Sydpolen, Alico Teletour & Alfa Polar
Been liked: 4 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by bgregoire » Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:30 pm

Fisheater, sorry if it came out sounding rude, was not my intention. And about alls those miles i should be skiing I must say I’m sure you beat me last winter!

Waxing the tip and or scales is actually good advice! I’m with you, although I feel he should expect some drag once he hits the extra grip he is looking for.

But the issue for the op is a grippier solution for icy conditions. I usually stay clear of ice if a can, I’m so unsatisfied skiing my waxed skis on ice.

Take care bud, snow is coming...again


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

User avatar
lowangle al
Posts: 1418
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:36 pm
Been liked: 3 times

Re: More traction for waxless skis in less ideal conditions. Kicker skins?

Post by lowangle al » Sun Sep 27, 2020 7:53 am

TC if waxing the tips doesn't work I wouldn't be afraid to wax the scales as long as you have a chemical wax remover . Last season I had good luck on "crusty" snow using the Swix red/silver that I had on during the warm spell that preceded the freeze. On crusty snow I find wax sticks real good so you may not need to wax the entire pocket. The problem is getting it to stay on. At any rate don't be afraid to experiment.

Post Reply