A new NTN Binding from The M!

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Johnny
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Location: Quebec / Vermont
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A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Johnny » Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:56 am

We had a lot of fun at the 2020 XCD World Council in January. A lot of talk and discussions about the semi-secret upcoming Rottefella BC binding, and a lot of ideas about a brand new potential system for leather boots, which I might talk to you about later... Lot of great folks, such a lovely, friendly vibe, always a pleasure to attend.

Over the 2 day meeting, I couldn't help but overhear some French local Knights talk about NTN. (Despite the fact that the Knights are here to protect the "sanctity" in "Cross-Country Downhill", most of them are also avid NTN skiers too.) Anyway, when I overheard them say a new NTN binding was on the way, I couldn't help joining the conversation.

Of course the talk was very brief, we all know that non-disclosure protocols never work, so people are always careful about leaking new information. So sadly, I can't tell you much. But here are some secret documents I was able to find on the council's private FTP server. They are dated January 9th 2020 so it's really new. And according to the technical papers I found, compared to other bindings on the market, this one would "Allow the most natural possible leg flexion with regular and progressive tension. And make it possible to rediscover the sensations of classic 75mm bindings".
Meidjo New NTN Binding 1.jpg
Meidjo New NTN Binding 2.jpg
Meidjo New NTN Binding 3.jpg

AT LAST, a real lightweight NTN binding for TX COMPS?!?

It's interesting to note that in the first picture, the new binding seems to be a simple Meidjo with a standard NTN toe cup. (Which would be totally AWESOME!) On the other hand, it seems like a totally new idea on the 2nd and 3rd picture, with the springs in the front. VERY interesting... I wish I could tell you more, but of course my official communications with The M were left unanswered...

The original document below... Also dated January 9,2020. Not sure if it was written in English or Google-translated, but there are some very nice hidden truths about telemark in that document... These guys know their stuff...

_________________________________________________________________


The present binding relates to a ski binding, more particularly of the telemark type. However, it finds its application to bindings fitted to other types of ski, such as cross-country skis, which the user wishes to use in "telemark" mode.

Traditionally ski touring, telemark ski or cross-country ski bindings allow easy lifting of the heel in practice either for climbing or for taking the telemark step to make a turn. To be able to perform this gesture, the bindings ensure that the front toe of the shoe is held in place by a stirrup that leaves the heel free to move.

In telemark, the most commonly used materials were bindings according to “standard 75”. This type of binding is characterized by a fixed front socket, which maintains the so-called "duckbill" shape located at the front of the shoe, as well as a cable tension system equipped with springs locking on the heel of the shoe. The standard of these bindings requires having a right and a left binding. By cons, it is possible to put a right shoe in a left binding, it follows that the ski will not be aligned with the shoe resulting in great difficulty in skiing.

This shoe standard also makes it difficult to walk on rock when climbing in the mountains. It does not allow the use of standard glacier cleats and limits the use of this type of boot to only skiing with telemark binding. In addition to the problem of fixing right and left, the installation of the shoes in the bindings is always very delicate. The skier is often forced to put a knee on the ground to block the ski and be able to lock the tension system on the heel of the boot. These operations are made even more difficult in the presence of snow. Indeed, skis are rarely equipped with "ski stop", they slide easily sometimes making the locking operation tedious. Finally, heaving in the event of a fall is practically impossible, so that the use of these bindings therefore presents a high risk of injury to skiers.

In the mid-2000s, a group of manufacturers defined the new standard mentioned above, called "New Telemark Norm" or NTN, which established a new standard for ski / boot interface. This new standard has made it possible to create bindings which combine the freedom of movement of the heel specific to telemark and which integrate a safety device releasing the boot in the event of a fall of the skier. The bindings being symmetrical the user can put on the ski he wishes as he would for conventional alpine ski bindings, there is no longer left or right ski. Responding to several problems of the standard of the standard 75, these bindings can also integrate ski stops and bring an additional safety for skiers.

Among the fixing models meeting the NTN standard, mention will be made in particular of the one marketed by the company ROTTEFELLA under the commercial reference FREERIDE . This binding comprises a set for immobilizing the front end of the shoe, which includes in particular a stirrup. This horseshoe-shaped stirrup holds the front of the shoe and the lateral overhangs ensuring good support of the shoe. The shoe is held flat over the front 40 millimeters of the shoe. So the first 30 millimeters of the shoe shell are also held flat by the stirrup which exerts its holding function on the lateral overhangs of the sole.

In the Telemark mode of use, the above-mentioned front immobilizer assembly is locked in rotation relative to the ski. The front part of the boot is kept flat, parallel to the ski. The stirrup being locked in rotation, the shoe is constrained when the heel is raised. First of all, we notice that during the practice of Telemark, the sole of the shoe is badly damaged. When the heel is raised, when the bellows is completely flattened, the area of the shoe located between the front of the bellows and the part held by the stirrup deforms because the part of the sole located just before is blocked in the stirrup. The side edges of the shoes are strongly marked and sometimes tear. After a few months of use, the boot is irreparably deformed and a significant play between the boot and the binding appears, introducing a feeling of floating which limits the precision of piloting the ski.

Furthermore, the stirrup is also subjected to significant stresses, so that there is a significant risk of mechanical rupture of this part. Finally, this binding does not offer progressive bending for the user wishing to practice Telemark. In particular, during certain phases of the flexion movement performed by the user, this flexion is not felt as regular, varies a lot with sometimes games and moments without tension.

In summary, the type of fasteners described above involves many drawbacks, notably deformation and deterioration of the shoes due to the stresses created by the new geometry of the stirrup as well as high stresses in the fastening.

There are also known fasteners meeting the NTN standard, which are marketed by the company 22DESIGN under the reference OUTLAW. This fixation uses a short stirrup with little grip on the sole. Only the first 10 millimeters of the sole are taken in the stirrup. The lateral overhangs of the sole are not maintained. This choice allows a certain degree of rotation of the shoe within this stirrup. Consequently, the blocking sensation is reduced, in particular with regard to the solution described immediately above. However, this reduction in length of the stirrup induces significant risks of the shoe leaving the stirrup. This also results in less precision when taking the edge when the user wishes to make a turn. In fact, since the outsides of the sole are not used, the lateral force transmission is reduced. The user can also feel the play of the shoe in the binding due to the low grip of the shoe. In order to remedy this specific drawback, it has been proposed to integrate powerful springs, so as to block the shoe at the bottom of the stirrup. This significant restoring force, however, requires a very high physical effort, when practicing Telemark. In addition, it is also accompanied by premature wear of the soles, as in the FREERIDE binding described above.

In view of the above, the present invention aims to remedy at least certain drawbacks of the prior art mentioned above.

The introduction of the NTN standard divided the telemark community because the products offered required a change in technique. In 2014, The M Equipment had introduced on the market a new product called MEIDJO which, while using shoes with the NTN standard, makes it possible to rediscover the sensations of classic bindings called "standard 75". The present invention firstly proposes to offer the same convenience of use.

The present binding proposes a fixing which makes it possible to reduce the mechanical stresses, during the practice of Telemark. It also aims to provide such a binding, which avoids any untimely deterioration of the shoe. Moreover, it also aims to provide such a fixation, which ensures a pleasant practice of Telemark for the user, in particular by allowing the most natural possible leg flexion with regular and progressive tension.

There are certain drawbacks of the prior art, stem from the stirrup of the stirrup relative to the ski, in the Telemark position. Indeed, such a blockage is the source of significant mechanical stresses, which lead to premature wear of the shoe and the binding.

In essence, these constraints are inherent in the immobilization of the front part of the sole in the stirrup of the binding. In fact, during flexion linked to the practice of telemark, the front part of the sole is clamped in the stirrup. The latter being fixed, this results in a significant deformation of the sole, which rests on this stirrup. Over time, the entire shoe is deformed and the sole takes up play in the stirrup, resulting in deformation of the shoe and a significant loss of precision for the user.

On the contrary, in accordance with the new binding, the immobilizer assembly is mounted floating. In other words, the pivoting of this assembly relative to the ski is entirely free. Consequently, this floating and free-to-rotate nature makes it possible to substantially reduce the stresses exerted on the binding according to the invention, as well as on the shoe immobilized in this binding. In this respect, the constraints linked to the tilting torque at the front area of the shoe are reduced, since the shoe is free to tilt when the stirrup is under heavy stress. Under these conditions, the life of both the binding and the shoe is improved.

Furthermore, according to a particularly advantageous characteristic of the invention, the floating character described above is not accompanied by instability, which would be detrimental to the satisfactory use of the binding. Indeed, the pivot axis of the immobilizer assembly, relative to the front plate, is positioned judiciously. In this regard, the person skilled in the art can adjust certain dimensional parameters which will be detailed below.

Consequently, during the initial phase of flexion, the weight of the user causes a natural tilting of the front toe of the shoe downward, in the opposite direction of this flexion. In this way, the immobilization assembly is substantially fixed while the front of the shoe is held flat, in a stable manner. The immobilizer assembly is then driven in movement, during a more accentuated phase of this flexion, so as to accompany the pivoting of the shoe. The overall flexion movement therefore takes place in a particularly natural way, which is very pleasant for the user.
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

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iBjorn
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Re: A new NTN Binding!

Post by iBjorn » Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:33 am

Could you share anything on the upcoming Rottefella BC binding?



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Johnny
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Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Johnny » Wed Feb 26, 2020 10:57 am

iBjorn wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:33 am
Could you share anything on the upcoming Rottefella BC binding?
More info here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=2655

And more info about another new system for leathers very soon...!

It's interesting to note that this new M binding will be "fitted to cross-country skis, which the user wishes to use in telemark mode."
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."



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Johnny
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Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Johnny » Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:35 am

The introduction of the NTN standard divided the telemark community because the products required a change in technique. In 2014, The M Equipment had introduced on the market a new product called MEIDJO which, while using shoes with the NTN standard, makes it possible to rediscover the sensations of classic bindings called "standard 75".
Finally, someone who shares my view...! 8-)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."



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Rodbelan
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Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Rodbelan » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:49 am

Johnny wrote:
Thu Feb 27, 2020 8:35 am
The introduction of the NTN standard divided the telemark community because the products required a change in technique. In 2014, The M Equipment had introduced on the market a new product called MEIDJO which, while using shoes with the NTN standard, makes it possible to rediscover the sensations of classic bindings called "standard 75".
Finally, someone who shares my view...! 8-)
Exactly! I rediscovered «the sensations of classic bindings called "standard 75"»... by skiing them...
É y fa ty fret? On é ty ben dun ti cotton waté?
célèbre et ancien chant celtique



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Johnny
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Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Johnny » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:10 am

Rod my dear friend... You have not the slightest idea of all the fun you are missing... 8-)

My guess is that you are still communicating with a pager and a fax machine? Still listening to Wham and Lara Fabian on cassette? Watching Lance et Compte and Du Tac au Tac on VHS? Smoking king size DuMauriers on the chairlifts? Cooking with your microwave? Reading the forum on your VIC-20? :D

I am a big nostalgic myself, but I like the future twice as much... ;)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."



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Woodserson
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Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Woodserson » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:46 pm

Oooooh, that was a real burn!



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Rodbelan
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Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Rodbelan » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:12 pm

Johnny wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:10 am
Rod my dear friend... You have not the slightest idea of all the fun you are missing... 8-)

My guess is that you are still communicating with a pager and a fax machine? Still listening to Wham and Lara Fabian on cassette? Watching Lance et Compte and Du Tac au Tac on VHS? Smoking king size DuMauriers on the chairlifts? Cooking with your microwave? Reading the forum on your VIC-20? :D

I am a big nostalgic myself, but I like the future twice as much... ;)
I am sorry but for now, I am on Commodore 64, so, chew on this...
É y fa ty fret? On é ty ben dun ti cotton waté?
célèbre et ancien chant celtique



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fisheater
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Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by fisheater » Sun Mar 01, 2020 5:27 pm

https://www.backcountrytalk.com/forum/b ... from-the-m

I don’t have much internet in NTN at this time, but I try to stay up with it a bit. The western guys seem to really like it. For me burley would be a pair of T-2’s, but they poached Johnny’s post, so I figured I would post their thoughts



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Johnny
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Posts: 2256
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:11 pm
Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God with leathers / Racing against the machine with plastics
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, XCD Comps, Objectives and S98s
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska XP, Alfa Guards, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: A new NTN Binding from The M!

Post by Johnny » Mon Mar 02, 2020 9:02 am

Erik Fey: (Telemark Down)
"This project was scrapped. Consensus was the future was in Tech from what I understand of which I have to agree. I believe this was canned last year."

Pierre Mouyade: (The M Equipment)
"I'm sorry but the project is far from scrapped. It has been postponed but I'm going to seriously rework it because I'm sure it's complementary to MEIDJO and the tech concept. More soon."
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."



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