How to tele: 3-pin only

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Andy M
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by Andy M » Tue Apr 28, 2020 8:56 pm

Tiefschnee wrote:
Tue Apr 28, 2020 12:05 pm
I have a pair of Madshus Epochs, which I love, but I'm planning on getting the Annums next fall, to be paired with plastic boots. The intention is to go touring for turns, with more emphasis on the turning part.My particular lightweight tele setup is Scarpa F1's (with bellows) coupled with TTS binding. I'm not sure where to mount the bindings, though. How did you mount the Switchbacks? Relative to pin line or relative to boot center? Thanks!
I recently picked up a pair of Annums but haven't mounted them yet. There is no boot center mark, but there are three mounting lines (about 1cm apart) for "pin-line" based on mondo size, basically for small, medium, and large size boots.

Before I mount my Annums, I will measure the chord center and the balance point and compare them with the Madshus marks, but I don't expect any surprises with a traditionally-shaped ski like this and will probably mount close to the recommended point -- still, I had a pair of skis (and, now that I think of it, they were Karhus) where the recommended marks were off by a lot (due to a mistake by Karhu), and I had to remount -- so it's worthwhile to check that the mounting marks look reasonable.

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phoenix
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by phoenix » Wed Apr 29, 2020 4:30 am

"I recently picked up a pair of Annums but haven't mounted them yet. There is no boot center mark, but there are three mounting lines (about 1cm apart) for "pin-line" based on mondo size, basically for small, medium, and large size boots.

Before I mount my Annums, I will measure the chord center and the balance point and compare them with the Madshus marks, but I don't expect any surprises with a traditionally-shaped ski like this and will probably mount close to the recommended point -- still, I had a pair of skis (and, now that I think of it, they were Karhus) where the recommended marks were off by a lot (due to a mistake by Karhu), and I had to remount -- so it's worthwhile to check that the mounting marks look reasonable."

This. For a year or two (when Karhu moved it's manufacturing to China), Karhu's top sheets/pin line marks were off; around 2008, 2009 or so. That was corrected. And I highly doubt Madshus would mismark their skis. I'd strongly recommend going with their pin line mounting point. Madshus knows it's skis.





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Rodbelan
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by Rodbelan » Wed Apr 29, 2020 8:17 am

Just to be more precise: Madshus BC skis ARE Karhu BC skis (Eon, Epoch, Annum were GT, 10th Mtn, Guide). So, if there was an error on the makings, Madshus had plenty of time and experience to correct the thing... To say «Madshus knows Karhu ski» is more appropriate in a way...
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phoenix
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by phoenix » Fri May 01, 2020 7:32 pm

Rod, I beg to differ on this. More accurately, Madshus skis WERE Karhu's skis... however, as I mentioned, it was Karhu producing the skis when the move to China occured, and the quality faltered. Madshus is Madshus, and has been for many decades. Karhu had a good run of it; I dealt with them for many years in retail here in Vermont (one of their home bases back then).
Madshus is across the great water, in the Old World.

That is how I recall things; I welcome correction from any bretheren or sisteren here who are more in the know. Gotta be a rep or two watching? Or maybe they're all skiing AT gear now and don't care. I dunno.





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Rodbelan
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by Rodbelan » Sat May 02, 2020 8:57 am

Well it is real easy to understand; I do not know, maybe we are saying the same thing? Madshus bought the molds of the Karhu BC series (not all of them)... Then, the GT, the 10th Mountain, the Guide became the Eon, the Epoch and the Annum. That's why I am saying that Madshus acquired Karhu experience, combined with theirs of course... I also know one of the pioneer that worked and took care of the production here in Cowansville... Just sayin...
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phoenix
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by phoenix » Sat May 02, 2020 9:47 am

Yes Rod, perhaps we are saying the same thing... I fully agree that Madshus took over the same skis and renamed them. My point was when that happened, production and quality control were by Madshus, rather than Karhu (which faltered in it's declining years).





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Rodbelan
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by Rodbelan » Sat May 02, 2020 9:55 am

Ah Forums... We are indeed saying the same thing. Just a little misunderstanding... My bad.
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phoenix
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by phoenix » Sat May 02, 2020 1:04 pm

No worries, your input was valid as well Rod.





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WorldMogul
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by WorldMogul » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:35 pm

I have a few more questions regarding 3 pin telemark, but a few things about me:
I ski 90% moguls (zippers), 10% steeps ...99% lift access, 1% touring...75% low stance, 25% high stance (want to move this to probably 50/50)

Mostly I ski on World Piste skis , G3 targas (on a 10mm riser plate), with Garmont synergy boots. On this setup I love the feeling of the tele turn.

At the end of last season I wanted to try 3 pins so I put Rottefella Super Telemark 3 pin bindings onto World Piste skis (with 20mm riser plate), with Garmont synergy boots for 2 days.
I thought this set up was okay and could get down the moguls, but it was tiring, and I felt like I was getting up onto my toes because the Garmont synergy boots were too stiff. I lost some of the good feeling of the tele turn, but maybe this is because I did only 2 days? I think I could get some of the good tele turn feeling back with a softer boot? Does anyone have an opinion on this?

I also skied an additional run with Merrell Super Comp boots, but they were a half size too small, and really hurt my toes...especially when I got low in the stance...the leather would pinch on my toes, and was very unpleasant.

Any recommendations on a softer boot? Do leather boots pinch the toes in a low (at time almost knee to ski) stance? How soft do you think I could go? Would old school XC boots work? Or should I stick to a a more robust BC XC boot?
Any other recommendations for getting a better set up to ski zipper line moguls on 3 pin?

Thanks!





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lowangle al
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Re: How to tele: 3-pin only

Post by lowangle al » Wed Jul 28, 2021 10:12 am

I'm not a mogul skier but I think the feel that you are missing going from a cable to pins is due to the way the edges engage. With a cable I more edge engagement earlier in the turn and more pressure towards the tips of the ski. With pins I get very little edge engagement until the ski is fully weighted, this takes longer and is less smooth than with the cable. I would think this is pretty significant when skiing moguls.

As far as boots go I use T4s for all my skiing. Bigger plastic boots don't give me enough range of motion and leather boots don't give me enough precision and control. Regardless of what boot you use you will still make quicker turns with a cable.





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