Fischer Scale Patterns

[rongon]

Seems like a good spread to me. What's your thoughts on the Rebounds? What do you typically ski with those?

I've kept my Rebounds as my 'jack-of-all-trades, knockin' around in the woods with the gang' ski. If others are on straight-up XC skis, I can keep up on Rebounds with floppy leathers. If others are on bigger XCD stuff like Annum/Switchback/T4, I can still hang, even if they go off looking for turns. I've even skied them on soft moguls lift-served (with Excursion-class boots).

That said, I think I'd rather have a pair of Outtabounds (88-68-78) than the Rebounds (88-60-78). The Outta's straighter profile would make them track better on the flats, and I don't think they'd turn any worse. Of course, Fischer discontinued the S-Bound 88.

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used. I know it doesn't climb as well as positive pattern fish-scales in some conditions, but the negative pattern p-tex base is far better on the flats and downhill than the extruded base positive scales. Once again, I end up liking the unpopular option that gets discontinued. Always happens.
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[lilcliffy]

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used. I know it doesn't climb as well as positive pattern fish-scales in some conditions, but the negative pattern p-tex base is far better on the flats and downhill than the extruded base positive scales. Once again, I end up liking the unpopular option that gets discontinued. Always happens.
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Join the club!

[MikeK]

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used. I know it doesn't climb as well as positive pattern fish-scales in some conditions, but the negative pattern p-tex base is far better on the flats and downhill than the extruded base positive scales. Once again, I end up liking the unpopular option that gets discontinued. Always happens.
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I'd really like to give you a few skis with the new version and see if your mind changes...

Having used the old mountain crown and the new off-track crown, I can tell you it really is a step in the right direction... especially for what these skis do best. This is why I bought a wax compliment for my quiver to pick up some of what that old pattern had when the conditions are right.

The new pattern is really good though... I know it's been said like a million times on here, but I feel like it's the best waxless base I've ever used in terms of grip and glide.

[rongon]

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used...

I'd really like to give you a few skis with the new version and see if your mind changes...

...The new pattern is really good though... I know it's been said like a million times on here, but I feel like it's the best waxless base I've ever used in terms of grip and glide.

Is the new Crown pattern on the S-Bound 125? If so, then I guess I'll find out pretty soon. Something else to look forward to.
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[MikeK]

Is the new Crown pattern on the S-Bound 125? If so, then I guess I'll find out pretty soon. Something else to look forward to.
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Yup - take a look compared to your old skis negative pattern Fischers. Perhaps not as glidey, but I think you'll be impressed on how it goes up, and for those skis, I'd imagine it will be a welcome thing.

[lilcliffy]

The new pattern is really good though... I know it's been said like a million times on here, but I feel like it's the best waxless base I've ever used in terms of grip and glide.

I agree. Fischer's "Offtrack Crown" is the best backcountry XCD waxless design I have ever tested.

Negative-scale patterns do offer better glide- there is less friction by definition. But in a backcountry XCD context, glide efficiency alone cannot compensate for lack of traction.

Fischer has not only carefully designed the grip/glide of the Offtrack Crown's traction scales- they have also carefully tested the length and position of the waxless insert to optimize performance.

Although I have tested some of the S-Bounds with the Offtrack Crown insert- I do not own any of the current S-Bounds to compare to my new E-99/E-109- in order to compare the configuration of the insert. I am assuming that the design in the E-99/E-109 is a bit more optimized towards XCd, and the S-Bound a bit more towards climbing?

Maybe I need a S-78 or S-88 in my quiver to compare...

[MikeK]

My E89 and S Bounds have exactly the same Offtrack Crown patterns. Placement and lengths may vary between the two series though, perhaps due to camber shapes.

I will say this, it doesn't really grip as well with a the DC as it does with the S Bound SC skis. That's pretty obvious and you'd expect any ski to be that way, plus the E89 is really skinny underfoot. I actually think the MGV+ grips a little better on the DC skis (Glitt and Voss) compared to my E89. That could be partly camber stiffness difference too.

[Cannatonic]

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used. I know it doesn't climb as well as positive pattern fish-scales in some conditions, but the negative pattern p-tex base is far better on the flats and downhill than the extruded base positive scales. Once again, I end up liking the unpopular option that gets discontinued. Always happens.
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Join the club!

same here, I am guarding my stash of ebay E99's with Mountain Crown, one 205 and one 210. I gave the 200cm to a lighter friend. I don't understand when people say it doesn't climb well. I can go up the Stowe side of Smuggler's Notch with no problems. The perfect ski for corn snow touring. I believe Fischer still puts the negative pattern on the BC-country XC skis. Maybe Asnes will finally cave & give us a fast-gliding scaled ski.

[lilcliffy]

Also, I really like the old negative scale pattern base Fischer used. I know it doesn't climb as well as positive pattern fish-scales in some conditions, but the negative pattern p-tex base is far better on the flats and downhill than the extruded base positive scales. Once again, I end up liking the unpopular option that gets discontinued. Always happens.
--

Join the club!

same here, I am guarding my stash of ebay E99's with Mountain Crown, one 205 and one 210. I gave the 200cm to a lighter friend. I don't understand when people say it doesn't climb well. I can go up the Stowe side of Smuggler's Notch with no problems. The perfect ski for corn snow touring. I believe Fischer still puts the negative pattern on the BC-country XC skis. Maybe Asnes will finally cave & give us a fast-gliding scaled ski.

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Great to hear from you man!

You hit the nail on the head there with "corn snow touring".

Negative patterns/designs like the Mountain Crown, and Omnitrack were designed for warm, wet conditions- and they perform perfectly in those conditions. (Karhus' Omnitrack is legendary in this context).

Where I think the "Offtrack Crown" outshines traditional waxless is in conditions that waxless traction has traditionally completely failed- cold, soft snow, icy re-frozen snow (not to suggest that it performs better than grip wax/klister).

On warm, wet snow the negative-pattern Omintrack offers excellent grip/glide- and glides better than the more aggressive Offtrack Crowns.

My brand new E-99/E109s have the new Offtrack Crown- haven't tested them yet...

[MikeK]

Split this topic off to a new subject. I expect lots of debate here

I gotta say, the new Offtrack Crown pattern works better in two conditions: crusty, hard snow and cold, dry powder.

I'll also be the first to say that some other scale patterns, like the Omni, don't work well in those conditions either, but the Offtrack really does IME.