Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

I have been skiing the S98's for the past couple of years -- 3pins and leathers/T3s. All backcountry in the rainshadows of the southern Cascades (Oregon). Without getting all techno, coming off older Karhus with basically the same dimensions, the S98s are mo' betta breaking trail and initiating turns. The "nordic rocker" is the real thing.

It's be really cool if Fischer could take a little camber out of the 112 and 125, and soften the flex a little bit. Those two are more sized to be powder skis. Maybe even take some sidecut out of the 125.

The 98, IMO, isn't wide enough to be a true powder ski. It's an all around ripper. Other than big lake effect dumps, it works great in the type of snow we have in NY.

Seen as how you guys don't believe me that every ski does this, I marked the contact points on four sets of skis, two S Bounds and two Madshus.

I had just eye-balled lengths before, but I set the skis bases to base, uncompressed, lined up the best I could with the tails and marked the contact point, then I compressed the camber with a clamp, like this:



Then I made another mark to where the contact point shifted too (approximately where I couldn't see light anymore). I then measured the difference.

The Eon, looks add about 8cm of rocker when the camber is fully compressed. See below:







I know it's hard to see the gap and where it closes, but you can clearly see the initial gap opening up and the contact point shifting back - what Fischer calls Nordic Rocker Camber.

Again, the difference on the S Bound, the amount of rocker added:







We see the same thing here, but the S Bound 78 adds about 10cm of rocker - Fischer claims 5mm tip rise/10cm rocker. Seems about right.

More...

Now I went to the Epoch and the S98. Big difference here:

Epoch:







I'd call it about 4cm. Not much.

On to the 98,Fischer claims 10/12 (10/15 on the 112):







I'd say it's more like 15cm on my 98s, but maybe it is only 12? It's really tough to distinguish the exact measurement, and I'd imagine any variation in the ski camber during pressing would impact this.

So yeah, that turny S98 has a TON more added rocker than the Epoch!

The tips on my 112's come right to the top in powder. For going downhill in powder they are really a nice ski. Going downhill in powder is effortless, tips float to the top, I wish I had more of it in my corner of SE Michigan. My assumption has been that Lilcliffy prefers the Annums for their performance getting to the downhill, and the next and the next after that. Me I'm a simple sort, and happy to make laps on a nice hill with nice snow
Was just thinking, I thought my old Fischer VooDoo's were a decent powder ski too! They were back in the days of skinny skis, they had a nice even flex, a little soft. You just needed a little patience, they always found their way to the top.

New levels of dorkiness right here. Love it

MikeK wrote:Seen as how you guys don't believe me that every ski does this,

HA! I didn't mean to make you think that I didn't believe you that the contact point moves back- once the camber is compressed...but as you proved with your excellent photos and measurements- some skis open up significantly when the camber is compressed= "Nordic Rocker Camber".

The Eon, looks add about 8cm of rocker when the camber is fully compressed.

This is what I am seeing as well, but I don't think that my Eons open up as much as 8cm...
If you look closely at your excellent photos even the initial contact point of the Eon is further back than the S-78. I think that this explains UTE magazine's test describing the Eon as having slightly rockered (i.e. "open") tips.

MikeK wrote:Now I went to the Epoch and the S98. Big difference here:

Epoch:
I'd call it about 4cm. Not much.

On to the 98,

I'd say it's more like 15cm on my 98s, but maybe it is only 12? It's really tough to distinguish the exact measurement, and I'd imagine any variation in the ski camber during pressing would impact this.

So yeah, that turny S98 has a TON more added rocker than the Epoch!

Very cool....I wonder if this significant Nordic rocker is a result of the most recent redesign of the S-98- or did the "Boundless" always have it too?

Also interesting that the Epoch/XCD 10th Mtn has more closed tips than the Eon!? (The Annum/XCD Guide is the same as the Epoch BTW).

If I get a chance I will measure the amount of Nordic Rocker on my new E-99 and E-109. Just using my eyes- they seem to open up at least as much as your S-98 (perhaps even a little more!).

My Asnes Combat Natos have almost ZERO Nordic rocker, and the initial contact point is right at the base of the tip (i.e. there is no tip rocker at all).

My "measurements" are pretty crude. And I'm sure there is a lot of variation from ski to ski because the amount of camber IMO affects how much they rocker.

I just wanted to be clear that all skis do this and that Fischer seems to have exploited it even further (which I thought perhaps was an exaggeration until I actually measured/looked closely).

If I get a chance I'd like to remark and take better photos - I was having a hard time holding the tape, holding down the flash and manually focusing the camera to the point I wanted to show. I think putting a white background down could help. If I get a chance, I'll redo them to be more clear.

The Eons surely have different tip lengths than the S Bounds. The amount of rocker I was seeing was only what was added by compressing the camber though. 8cm "might" be more than what there really is, but it's hard to measure the exact compressed contact point. I bet I'm within a cm or two though. I thought about marking with a feeler gauge to get a more consistent measurement, maybe I'll try that again... but again, I'm sure there is some variation.

lilcliffy wrote: My Asnes Combat Natos have almost ZERO Nordic rocker, and the initial contact point is right at the base of the tip (i.e. there is no tip rocker at all).

Mine definitely open up - I wonder if it's a difference in the 200 vs 210 but eyeballing it, they looked similar to Epoch... maybe 4-5cm.

I checked every ski I own and they all did it to some degree. The least was actually my Tua Heliums, which are an AT/Tele ski. They have a very soft, alpine single camber. The contact point barely moves when compressed, but I figured this was perhaps a function of a low, soft camber more than anything else.