wide waxless skis

[jyw5]

There is a thread on here by voilenerd comparing the Vagabond to theV6. It sounds to me like the Vagabond is more similar to the Ultravector.

There is a guy up here who has them and I'd be willing to switch skis with him if we can get together. Are you up for that Ian?

I am trying to plan an outing this Saturday. I have a buddy I'm meeting up with to let him try my Fischer 88s and the Vagabonds. We went out a while back and he just had his skinny track skis. Even after I broke trail for him he had an awful time, so I'm trying to redeem backcountry skiing for him. I'm currently planning on doing this at the Symphony Lake Trailhead near Eagle River. I'll give you a call later today.

Nice! hope the weather holds up. Our trip to Ruth Glacier got cancelled. Was supposed to be tomorrow to monday. I am going to ski Bear Mountain again tomorrow. Its warmed up quite a bit these past few days. Will be interesting to see how the snow is now. I'm hoping it has softened up at the top and more consistent. The other day was either hard crust or breakable crust into bottomless snow. The wind needs to die down and the sun needs to come out.

I will be taking the FT62 again. I am also thinking about the Fischer S112 (WL)...but those are unusable if its still windcrusted.

[lilcliffy]

From the thread Al flagged:

I got the Vagabonds. Same as the Pariah but with scales and lighter wood core. The flex was leaps and bounds stiffer then my hypervectors especially the tails. I did a few runs and then took my V6/vectors out the same day. Dramatically stiffer on the Summit Cones. My boots are t2s and also got some bumble bee T1s. Some guys love stiff skis, I dont.

So, seems like the Vagabonds are significantly stiffer than the Hypervectors at least (not sure how that translates to the Ultravectors). Am I correct in assuming that generally greater stiffness correlates with better K&G performance but presents more difficulty going downhill? If that's the case, maybe the Vagabonds would be better for my purposes?

I don't think that stiffer is necesarily "better" for "K&G" when it comes to the skis you are considering in this thread...
None of these downhill-touring skis offer "K&G" performance from a Nordic touring perspective. One can- and people certainly do- kick and glide on downhill-touring skis, but the ski geometry and physics of XC skiing on a short, wide, single-cambered dowhill ski is totally different than on a long, narrow, cambered ski with stiff resistance underfoot.

Softer-flexing skis are easier to pressure and flex into turns than stiffer skis.
Softer-flexing skis are less stable at speed than stiffer skis.
Softer-flexing skis typically have less torsional stability and edge hold than stiffer skis (but this also greatly depends on the geometry of the ski and its effective edge).

There are situations where I want softer-flexing downhill skis- there are situations where I want very stiff-flexing skis.

As far as XC skiing with a short, wide downhill-touring ski- a soft round-flexing ski can bow like a banana- especially for a heavy skier. So- at your weight, you might lean towards a stiffer ski that will be more stable and supportive in deep soft snow..However- if that ski is very stiff it might be very difficult to pressure and bend into turns at low speeds on gentle to moderate downhill terrain. The rocker-camber profile and overall flex pattern of the ski play into this as well. A ski with a rockered tip is already "bent" into a turn initiation and the effective edge is shortened.

Sorry for blathering on about this- but stiffness alone does not necesarily offer "better" XC performance...

I would suggest you listen to other skiers of similar size who are skiing on similar terrain and snow conditions- especially skiers that have been doing it enough to have tried a number of different skis.

[jyw5]

There is a thread on here by voilenerd comparing the Vagabond to theV6. It sounds to me like the Vagabond is more similar to the Ultravector.

There is a guy up here who has them and I'd be willing to switch skis with him if we can get together. Are you up for that Ian?

I am trying to plan an outing this Saturday. I have a buddy I'm meeting up with to let him try my Fischer 88s and the Vagabonds. We went out a while back and he just had his skinny track skis. Even after I broke trail for him he had an awful time, so I'm trying to redeem backcountry skiing for him. I'm currently planning on doing this at the Symphony Lake Trailhead near Eagle River. I'll give you a call later today.

Let me know how it went yesterday!

The snow was very soft at Hatcher Pass. I used my AT setup for downhill skiing at Skeetawk which turned out to be good choice in that deep mash.

I haven't been out to Symphony Lake TH in the winter as the drive there is quite treacherous in the winter and the initial climb up the trail is in an avy zone (my inlaws used to live 2 miles from the trailhead). I camped at the far end of Eagle Lake and climbed Eagle Peak, Sept 2019. Pretty awesome area.

I'm going back to Ship Lake Pass tomorrow, this time with the Skog.

(Åsnes Cecilie Skog 185cm + NNN BC Magnum
(76-56-66 4lbs)

Will post trip details in one of these threads...probably the crusty thread... still very crusty up high on north and east facing slopes.

[lowangle al]

It went very well, except Ian couldn't make it so it was just my wife and I. The trail starts at 2000' on a NE aspect and after a couple miles it turns slightly to be more sun exposed, topping out at about 2500'. We started at 11:30 on a well packed foot path and the off trail was also firm and supportable. At a certain point where you leave the foot path to head up the valley the snow was supportable at first but we started breaking through by around 2:30 and got back to the foot path none too soon. The NE aspect remained pretty supportable for some decent turns off trail but there were still some soft spots to be cautious of.

It was a great bluebird day on a very scenic trail that I hadn't been on before. We moved pretty slow due to taking a lot of pictures but our moving time was still about 3mph. I was on Hyper vectors and my wife was on V6s.

[lowangle al]

Getting close the head of the valley

We cooled off our feet before heading back down.

[ᚠᚨᚱ ᚾᛟᚱᚦ ᛊᚲᛁᛖᚱ]

Looks lovely. I've been up there in the summer and its absolutely gorgeous. Wish I could have made it.

[jyw5]

It went very well, except Ian couldn't make it so it was just my wife and I. The trail starts at 2000' on a NE aspect and after a couple miles it turns slightly to be more sun exposed, topping out at about 2500'. We started at 11:30 on a well packed foot path and the off trail was also firm and supportable. At a certain point where you leave the foot path to head up the valley the snow was supportable at first but we started breaking through by around 2:30 and got back to the foot path none too soon. The NE aspect remained pretty supportable for some decent turns off trail but there were still some soft spots to be cautious of.

It was a great bluebird day on a very scenic trail that I hadn't been on before. We moved pretty slow due to taking a lot of pictures but our moving time was still about 3mph. I was on Hyper vectors and my wife was on V6s.

Glad you guys had a great day! I would like to go up there next season...maybe a little earlier when the snow is perfect.

some of those mountains around the lakes would be excellent skiing just a month earlier if the weather and avy conditions are just right.

Here's my photos from my climb sept 2019: