Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

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jyw5
Posts: 155
Joined: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:52 am

Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by jyw5 » Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:27 pm

Thanks for replying! I will stick with my inferior boots for a season or two and practice my downhill and maybe get a pair of Alfa Guards in a year or two. I guess it would only make me better when I finally make the upgrade.

It is really hard make turns on a cruddy wet heavy steep slope with my cheap boots: Fischer OTX 5, Alfa Rondane Core, and the Madshus Glitterind. Most of the time, I end up having to step turn down and survival ski. It has been incredibly frustrating (especially since I'm an experienced alpine backcountry skiier).

Why do I bother?

For those new to the sport, there are several reasons:

The NNN BC boots are infinitely more comfortable than any plastic boot. I havent found my plastic AT boot yet. I have wide feet needing a last of 103-104mm. The first 3000ft of vertical is great...then my feet sweat and then any vertical after is blister hell (a long multiday tour is 5000-6000ft per day). I'm going to a boot fitter and getting another Intuition liner to see if it helps.

The next reason is weight. My lightest AT setup is literally 2x heavier. My Falketind 62, NNN BC, and leather boots with skins comes in at less than 8.5 pounds. My AT setup is just under 17 lbs. My heavier wider setup is 21.5 lbs. Plastic boots in pin bindings do terribly on flat terrain...long approaches suck! One (of many) such routes for example: 16.5 miles roundtrip, 2400ft vertical. You only gain 1000ft in the first 6 miles. 1400ft gain on the final 2.25 miles. That approach on an AT setup is not fun. And skiing out sometimes requires a separate set of kicker skins...or several transitions. On a light tele setup, only 1 transition would be needed -- full skins for the steep section and thats it.


And lastly, most of the time, I ski alone...at least once/wk. It's liberating to xcd a few runs and still clock in 2000-3000ft in a few hours with no big avy pack, no beacon, no shovel, no digging pits.

Now I just need to improve my skills and get the best and most durable boot for my local terrain (south central Alaska)...which seems to be the Alfa Guard Advance.

Here's 3 photos of the 16.5 mile ski route...you will understand why despite the long approach it is worth going.


Sorry for the long off topic post. Must be the coffee.
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Last edited by jyw5 on Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lilcliffy
Posts: 2505
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Falketind 62;Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Scarpa T4
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:27 pm

Johnny wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 2:22 pm
My opinion is quite the opposite... While being lighter and "softer" than heavy full grain leathers, I get a lot more control on the Alaska than with any of my "extreme" boots, even the super-stiff hi-top ones with buckles. Specs and handling is something, but skiing a boot is the most important factor. The Alaska is an amazing and surprising boot... Very well designed: soft and comfortable, but with all the power of a "extreme-class" boot... No wonder it's now the most popular one...
I did not mean to suggest that the Alaska is not an excellent downhill boot- it certainly is.

I just meant that it does not have the ankle support of what is described above as an "Extreme-class" boot. Whether a plastic reinforced cuff is important- or not- depends on the skier. And I certainly believe that the Alaska outperforms many "Extreme-class" boots (which is why I think describing it as a "high-top sneaker" is a gross exaggeration). For example- depsite the extra ankle support, I am not yet convinced that my Svartisen is better downhill than my Alaska.

It also depends on whether we are talking 3-pin-NN or NNNBC- for example- IME- the Alaska BC is a better boot than the Alaska 75- both XC and downhill...

I don't have any experience with the Svartisen 75, but Gamme the Elder's UTE Magazine test suggests that the Svartisen BC is better than the 75....

Regardless- for BC-XCD skiing- I much prefer all three of my top-of-the-line NNNBC boots - Alaska BC/Svartisen BC/Guard Advance BC- over the Asolo Extremes I skied back in the 90s. They are much more comfortable, MUCH warmer, much better XC skiiing, and- I do agree- they offer better downhill performance- depsite not having the ankle support of the "Extreme-class" boot.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
Posts: 2505
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Falketind 62;Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:48 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Fri Dec 13, 2019 10:44 pm
How would you classify the new NNN BC Alfa Guard Advance? Would that be an extreme boot?
Based on the classification above- the Guard Advance does not fit in the "Extreme-class" boot category as it does not have a plastic reinforced cuff (internal or external).

Though I have no direct experience with the Glittertind BC boot- despite the cuff and strap- the Glitt boot seems to be in the same class as the Rossignol BCX6- which does not have anywhere near as much ankle support of an "Extreme-class" boot.

I am currently regularly skiing the Alaska BC, Svartisen BC, and Guard Advance BC:
- the Svartisen has the most ankle support- the Alaska the least.
- the Alaska has the stiffest sole flex and is the most torsionally rigid.
- the Svartisen and the Guard Advance have the same sole flex and torsional stability- less than the Alaska, but much more than the Rossignol BCX6.
(I do not know how the sole flex and stability of the Glittertind BC boot compares...)
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
Posts: 2505
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 7:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Falketind 62;Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Dec 14, 2019 7:53 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Sat Dec 14, 2019 3:27 pm
The NNN BC boots are infinitely more comfortable than any plastic boot.
That is for sure!
Plastic boots in pin bindings do terribly on flat terrain...long approaches suck!
Yes- agree- it is murderous actually- not only inefficient- but hard on the feet, legs, knees and back. AT is for climbing not covering distance!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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Johnny
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Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, Objectives and all Asnes skis.
Favorite boots: ALFA Guard Advance, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by Johnny » Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:21 am

Nice pics!!!
By the way, tell your friends to upgrade their old Guides to the new Asnes NOSI 76s... Almost the same ski, only 10 times better...! 8-)
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
- Never trust a guy who recommends T4s and pins
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

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jyw5
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by jyw5 » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:03 pm

Thanks!

Good eye! He has 3 pairs of karhu guides with silvretta bindings. I think he paid less than $200 each for them. He summited denali the first time with those skis. He has gone to the darkside and upgraded to an AT setup...Arcteryx Procline, dynafit bindings, Volkl skis.

I borrowed his guides and did that trip with a pair of Scarpa Alpha ice climbing boots. It was difficult skiing but the boots climbed great and my feet were warm. I would like to do that trip again with my upgraded gear. The S112 may be a good option as fish scales are great for flattish to hilly terrain (which is more than 6 miles one way).

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Johnny
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Posts: 2025
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:11 pm
Location: Quebec / Vermont
Ski style: Dancing with God
Favorite Skis: Redsters, Radicals, Objectives and all Asnes skis.
Favorite boots: ALFA Guard Advance, Scarpa TX Comp
Occupation: Full-time ski bum

Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by Johnny » Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:45 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:03 pm
He has gone to the darkside and upgraded to an AT setup...Arcteryx Procline, dynafit bindings, Volkl skis.
Ouch... Poor him... It would be hard to go darker than this... ;)

I'm sure you will illumate his lamp when he'll see your Alfa Guards and your Waxless NOSIs... (Please write to Asnes and tell them how much you would love to see WL NOSIs... :lol: )
/...\ Peace, Love, Telemark and Tofu /...\
- Never trust a guy who recommends T4s and pins
"And if you like to risk your neck, we'll boom down Sutton in old Quebec..."

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Nitram Tocrut
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 11:50 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada
Ski style: "Doorstep" backcountry skiing and groomed trails
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad and FT62, Fischer Europa 99 and Madschus TL-70
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska 75 mm
Occupation: Organic vegetable grower and many other things!

Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by Nitram Tocrut » Thu Dec 19, 2019 7:37 pm

Johnny wrote:
Thu Dec 19, 2019 6:21 am
Nice pics!!!
By the way, tell your friends to upgrade their old Guides to the new Asnes NOSI 76s... Almost the same ski, only 10 times better...! 8-)
Speaking of the NOSI 76, have you tried them still?

Just asking... no way I am buying them... this year I mean :lol:

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jyw5
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by jyw5 » Fri Dec 20, 2019 1:04 am

That Nosi 76 looks awesome. Wouldn't it be great to have a whole set of Asnes skis.... Too many skis, too little time.
I am liking my FT62s....but I am saving them for better conditions. I went out again today on my S112s in breakable rain crust over soft wet snow / hard wind/sun crust...it was pretty terrible. The 3:30pm sunset didn't help either. Saw a couple with fat powder skis and dynafit, they weren't doing well either.
Last edited by jyw5 on Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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paulk
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Re: Leather Ski Boots & Light Telemark Boots

Post by paulk » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:26 pm

I printed out the entire webpage of Dave Mann's pure genius on XCD about five years ago. I made three coppies. A copy is about 50 pages. If anyone would like a copy, unless it's on the web again, let me know. we can arrange something

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