Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

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JohnSKepler
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Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by JohnSKepler » Sun Nov 05, 2023 11:18 am

Continued from Part 1 https://telemarktalk.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6201
Sometimes it is recommended to use a drill press turned by hand to make sure the tap goes in straight. I tried this on a previous set last year and didn't like the feel. I much preferred the results, and the time spent, doing this by hand. If you're not experienced with this kind of work I recommend caution. The tap cuts the threads very easily. It wouldn't take much to strip the hole to be careful. I also ran the tap through twice. Once until it gets tight and then remove the tap and blow the hole out. Run the tap in again and you'll get anywhere from a half to a full turn more. Blow the hole out again. When you're done the hole should look like this.
IMG_9418.jpg
I always test fit every insert in every hole. They should bottom out flush with the top sheet. If they are slightly above or below that's fine but any more than a half-millimetere above the top sheet may need a slightly deeper hole to prevent interference with the binding.
IMG_9420.jpg
I run the inserts in by hand using the tap-installation tool. A screwdriver will work here but the tool makes the job go smoother. You shouldn't need a tap handle or anything like that to get them in. They'll go in really easy all the way to the bottom. When I put in the epoxy I'll use a tiny spanner to sink them a quarter to a half-turn past finger tight.
IMG_9421.jpg
Once satisfied that all the inserts fit into all the holes, mix the epoxy. Other types of glue might work but I use the stuff Binding Freedom sells with their kits.
IMG_9424.jpg
Use a Q-tip to get glue into the hole. I don't have a great feel for how much glue to use. I just make sure the inside of the hole is nicely coated. The working time on this epoxy is quite long so you don't have to rush. With the Xplore binding, seven screws, I fill all the holes then put in all the inserts. For something like a Meidjo (13 screws!) you might want to do it in stages.
IMG_9427.jpg
If you go slow and are careful, it should come out looking something like this.
IMG_9429.jpg
I'll wait 48 hours for the epoxy to set but it looks like everything is lining up nicely!
IMG_9423.jpg
Last edited by JohnSKepler on Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Veni, Vidi, Viski

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Manney
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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by Manney » Sun Nov 05, 2023 12:53 pm

Great job. Great write up.
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Stephen
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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by Stephen » Sun Nov 05, 2023 2:07 pm

Nice contribution.

For anyone working with epoxy: Vinegar will remove uncured epoxy.
I know it sounds unlikely (at first I didn’t believe it myself), but it really does work.
Usually better than resorting to acetone, especially for skin.



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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by riel » Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:16 pm

That is almost exactly the same way I put inserts in my skis.

The only thing I did different was screw the bindings partway onto the skis before the epoxy is set, and then let the epoxy dry with the skis upside down, and the bindings hanging a few mm below the skis.

That way any additional play in the system (before the epoxy is cured) gets resolved in favor of being able to put the binding on more easily.



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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by Montana St Alum » Mon Nov 06, 2023 6:19 am

riel wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:16 pm
That is almost exactly the same way I put inserts in my skis.

The only thing I did different was screw the bindings partway onto the skis before the epoxy is set, and then let the epoxy dry with the skis upside down, and the bindings hanging a few mm below the skis.

That way any additional play in the system (before the epoxy is cured) gets resolved in favor of being able to put the binding on more easily.
Pretty much what I do too. I haven't had to put in inserts in at least 3 years. New ski day!

I also cut the tip off the Q-tips so I can get epoxy down into the holes a little better.
Last edited by Montana St Alum on Wed Nov 08, 2023 10:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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JohnSKepler
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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by JohnSKepler » Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:17 pm

riel wrote:
Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:16 pm
That is almost exactly the same way I put inserts in my skis.

The only thing I did different was screw the bindings partway onto the skis before the epoxy is set, and then let the epoxy dry with the skis upside down, and the bindings hanging a few mm below the skis.

That way any additional play in the system (before the epoxy is cured) gets resolved in favor of being able to put the binding on more easily.
That’s a great tip. I’ll add that with attribution to the procedure. But I did intend to say, let the epoxy set with the skis flat. I did a set last year that I leaned against the wall. When I came back some hours later to check epoxy had run out and down the ski! Must have been warm. There was plenty in there to do the job but how did you avoid that?
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riel
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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by riel » Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:58 pm

JohnSKepler wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 2:17 pm
That’s a great tip. I’ll add that with attribution to the procedure. But I did intend to say, let the epoxy set with the skis flat. I did a set last year that I leaned against the wall. When I came back some hours later to check epoxy had run out and down the ski! Must have been warm. There was plenty in there to do the job but how did you avoid that?
i've had a few bubbles of epoxy stick out before, but I just cut those off with a knife after it's cured.

It hasn't been a real issue.



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Eastern Ian
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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by Eastern Ian » Tue Dec 05, 2023 11:54 am

Where did you get M5 screws for the Xplore? Binding Freedom's "Low Head" aren't low enough. I ended up grinding mine. They appear to work, but I haven't actually mounted them yet.

Totally agree with the loose mounting before Epoxy sets. I didn't do it the first few pair. The mounts since, have been much better. My early mounts have all worked, but there were always a screw or two that were tight enough against a binding hole that they wanted to cross thread.

Binding Freedoms directions include this step, but by then, I've generally stopped reading them. :D



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Re: Retrofitting inserts into previously drilled skis Part 2

Post by Montana St Alum » Tue Dec 05, 2023 12:00 pm

You can get M5's of various lengths at Home Depot. Bring a screw along to check, but they have nuts mounted to try them against. Or, bring an insert and make sure the screws are long enough to get a few turns on them to engage. They may have the length you need. I've done that in the past. The only downside is that they usually use Philips heads which get stripped pretty easily.



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