Waxless Skis Icing Bad

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Woodserson
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Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
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Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by Woodserson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:53 pm

The 99's I got from you are just to have scales when I can't take out my 210 Madshus Tourings due to snow temps. They are very close to the same ski dimension wise, except the woodies are smooooth and quiet. Cadillac ride.

Pine tar to seal the bases (I do this once a season), then Polar corked smooth for glide wax the length of the ski. Grip wax as appropriate. Add Polar when needed, you can often see where it wears.

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gfwp
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Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by gfwp » Wed Jan 06, 2016 4:49 pm

Hi,

waxless are considered for beginners or for rent (at least this happens in many lands in Europe). This also for backcountry skiing, of course.

Pick two or three sticks with different temps range & an universal klister (optional, see below why...) & a small piece of glide wax (see below why...); a sharp scraper & a cork. Learn to wax conservatively, starting with harder wax for colder snow and add progressively layers of softer grip wax as needed, but never too much. And for these days when you really do not know what to do (or the uphill gets really steep) scrap well and slap on a pair of Intelligrip Skins. They glide pretty decently after being rubbed with correct GLIDE wax; they are by far the biggest step forward in XC tech in the last years. I never go ski without them any more.

Be happier waxlessless and welcome to the club.

Regards

gfwp

P.S: More and more XC ski producers are coming back to the skin-tech right this year. Most of them presents exchange sole systems.

P.P.S Did you see the brand new E109 with easy skin system from Fischer? Asnes has claimed patent violation, IIRC...

MikeK

Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by MikeK » Wed Jan 06, 2016 5:23 pm

Man I'm getting 'waxed' here!

Most of our fat skis here in the US are waxless. You can still get a few skinnies in wax form, but they are going too. It seems only racers and old hippies use wax anymore ;)

The Fischer skin models we can get are a bit stupid. You have scales AND the skin. I do suppose the skin will give you more climbing ability, but I think the Asnes method makes more sense (wax and skin).

I suppose when it comes to XCD I am still a beginner. I've only been at 3-4 years? And xc skiing growing up pretty casual, we even used waxless skis way back in the mid-80s when I started.

Our skiing culture here is not the same as Europe I suppose. Nordic is not very popular, and for those it is popular with, it's more track skiing. Then to me it seems to be a lot of elderly people... :lol: I suppose their doctors convince them it's good exercise and low impact. Then maybe a few lonely bears touring around in the mountains.

Everyone else seems to be interested in skiing steep slopes, riding lifts, getting drunk, hucking cliffs, impressing girls and other skiers, clomping around in the BC with full skins and tech bindings in fancy kits. I typically run into one or two people that are kind of doing what I'm doing when I get out and about, but not so many. They usually have similar stuff to me - waxless XCD skis (same models), similar boots, similar attitude (just out skiing around the woods)... most are interested in turns and stuff, but aren't necessarily skiing everything for that aspect.

Sometimes I see an old guy on long skinnies (probably wax) cruising around. I assume they are like me too, just been doing it longer.

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Woodserson
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Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by Woodserson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:37 pm

First, waxlessless is a great word!

Second, and we've gotten into this before, the reason wax isn't easy to find in the US is mostly because we're struggling in terms of competition with alpine skiing and easy-peasey snowshoeing combined with our unfortunate cultural attribute of impatience. We want results and thrills and we want them NNOOOWWW. No time to learn fussy waxing technique!

No other country that practices nordic skiing in large amounts has such a dearth of wax skis like we do.

I agree with the Fischer easy skin being overload for scales but I'm going to give them a shot anyway. I love my waxlessless skis, but there is nothing like a wax ski, nothing. Great summary of the alpine hog skier, btw. I used to be that guy, minus the trolling for babes, too busy crushing things.

What is this intelligrip?

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Woodserson
XCD Guide
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Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by Woodserson » Wed Jan 06, 2016 6:43 pm

Woodserson wrote:
What is this intelligrip?
Hmmmm, madshus, skins and also integrated skins... Seems racer-y. Good for backcountry and XCD?

MikeK

Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by MikeK » Wed Jan 06, 2016 7:07 pm

Well with the internet I'm surprised wax isn't making a resurgence. I know we are all too impatient to even wait for a webpage to load let alone rub things on planks, but with all the knowledge base out there you'd think it would be easier than ever.

Part of my problem back in the wax days was I was on my own. Just me and the wax. It's a scary place to be sometimes. I had a little booklet or something, but that's nothing compared to the info on the net.

And really it wasn't that bad - I still stand by the fact that the weather is generally crap where I live and I wasn't skiing in the mountains. Also I had no idea what klister was, and now that I do know, I really don't want to know any more!

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Cannatonic
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Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by Cannatonic » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:36 pm

:lol: :lol: there do seem to be a lot of older people doing XC skiing! It is easier on the joints, sort of like land swimming. More people are snowshoeing today, but I've seen some reassuring stuff too - the XC ski areas in Massachusetts were packed last year when I went a couple times. We need to get these people away from the ski area and into the "backcountry". That's part of the problem with wimpy track-skiing XC gear.

so true about being "alone" with waxing - it's hard to remember what it was like before the internet. I was "alone" with a tube of klister and wax skis and a couple years of very rainy, wet snow storms in the early 90's, what a nightmare. No way of knowing why it was so bad, or how to use it properly, or what alternatives existed. I think I still have klister PTSD!

those wood skis sound good - are they heavy? So you just use normal wax on them after pine-tarring. here's an interesting assortment:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VINTAGE-CROSS-C ... Sw9r1V9Htt
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)

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Cannatonic
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Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by Cannatonic » Wed Jan 06, 2016 8:49 pm

Woodserson wrote:
Woodserson wrote:
What is this intelligrip?
Hmmmm, madshus, skins and also integrated skins... Seems racer-y. Good for backcountry and XCD?
I think they stopped making this a few years ago. The fishscales with the kicker skins is a good idea. The kicker skins don't glide as well as scales, for spring skiing it would be good to have both. Mohair skins might glide OK but they're going to wear out fast if you put a lot of mileage on them. I'll bet the Norwegians would buy some waxless skis from Asnes if they made them!
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)

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gfwp
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Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by gfwp » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:17 am

Madshus Intelligrip Skins are short kicker skins that get mounted from the top of the ski like conventional long skins. The first part of them (below the ski tip) is made of a ski base material. The mohair part is only approx 70 cm long, under the foot. The have 2 different lengths to choose, depending on the ski.

Regards

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Re: Waxless Skis Icing Bad

Post by gfwp » Thu Jan 07, 2016 2:20 am

Ah, forgotten

the new E99 and E109 easy skins are waxable+skins (like all the Asnes recent models) and NOT like the S-Bound series which are waxeless+skin.

Regards

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