Fischer E-109 vs. Asnes Ingstad

[bgregoire]

Lilcliff & co.,

I dropped in at the La Cordée Boutique, AKA Yéti, in montreal, on my way to sweden. Got to play around with the Asnes skis and Alfa boots. Through handling, I would rate the Insgtad camber as relatively soft for a touring ski. You can flatten them out with one hand if that helps figuring it out. They are perhaps as stiff or even less than the Fischer Sbound 98 if I recall right, as some say, 1,5 to single camber sound right.

Its good to know that they have a very limited supply of Asnes skis and they will not be re-stocked this year. They have to import them directly. So, if they still have your size and you want them, get em now!

The Alfa boots are fantasti, both for backcountry and those for track skiing. So much support at the ankle. Your heel will not slip a mm in these. They are a tad wider than other brands and you might consider buying one size smaller than you are used to, to have them bend at the right place under the foot. Their 75mm order was blocked at the border. they will not have any this year.

I ordered a pair of 75mm Advance that i will pick up in Sweden, so you'll get some feedback in the coming months. Got 43 but wish i had ordered 42.

Cheers.

[lilcliffy]

Man- I want a pair of the Alfa boots...the price is outright painful though!

Ben- if you might permit me to say- when Ben says "relatively soft for a touring ski"- I interpret that the touring skis you are speaking of are relatively stiff, double-cambered skis like the E-99, Amundsen, Nansen. In other words the Ingstad is stiffer than skis like the Madshus XCDs (Eon/Epoch) and the S-Bounds. (Ben described the Ingstad as an "XCD" ski- but I take that in the traditional perspective of a Scandinavian "fjellski"- as opposed to a hybrid-tele ski)

If the Ingstad is softer than the S-98- it would unfortunately be a redundant ski for me (for a man with all of the Madshus/Karhu XCDs- including a 205cm waxable Eon).

(Ben- do you really think the S-98 is stiffer than the Ingstad? That actually confuses me- the S-98 is noticeably "stiffer" than the Epoch, but they are both single-cambered skis- but if the Ingstad is "camber-and-a-half"- wouldn't the Ingstad be stiffer and more cambered than the S-98?)

(Mike, Woodserson (and anyone)- wouldn't you say that the S-78&S-88 are stiffer than the S-98?...could the Ingstad be more like the Eon than any other of these skis?)

Any thoughts on how the flex pattern compares to the current E-109? Because if the E-109 is stiffer than the Ingstad (and the Ingstad is softer than the S-Bounds)- it may be more what I am looking for.

Perhaps the Ingstad is not as old-school as I thought...

[MikeK]

I can measure the flex on my S98 like I did on the S78 to see how much difference there is (length is different, so I expect a little change).

To my hand they didn't feel a ton stiffer though.

I had kind of suspected the Ingstad to be this way... to be honest - makes sense to me for a deep snow ski to be soft. Also being a combat ski you want something forgiving.

I'm sure if you sized it long enough for your weight you could have a nice wax pocket, but if you are at the upper end like me, you might only have the option to ski it as it is intended by the charts.

I'm thinking even if you buy this ski it's going to be a vast improvement over waxless S Bound/Eon in the right conditions... but if you have a wax Eon, it might not be that much different.

[Woodserson]

I just went downstairs and played with all of them... keep in mind my 78s have 3 seasons on them and my 88s and 98s are brand new. Stiffness wise, I'd say they are very similar, I have a hard time differentiating between them. I would say that the flex pattern is different-- the 98s have a more round pattern but the 78s and 88s are snappier along the length and shovel. Mind you, this is subjective hand flexing.

I would agree with Mike, the Ingstad strikes me as a softer ski. The Nansen would be my choice in that line-up for stiffer touring speed.

[MikeK]

Yeah the thing I noticed on the 78 was it looked kind of flat under the boot when I flexed and sighted it. Didn't see that with my 98s, more round there.

I thought at first they might have a slight second camber, then I measured them and decided if they did, it's so soft it almost doesn't matter.

Then maybe I thought it might have been the mounting plate making it stiffer locally, but I think Woods said the new ones don't have that, so now I'm maybe back to theory one. I shouldn't totally abandon the second thought though, because there could be something hiding in the ski under the laminate to make it behave that way in the middle on the 78/88 w/o the plate.

[lilcliffy]

I just went downstairs and played with all of them... keep in mind my 78s have 3 seasons on them and my 88s and 98s are brand new. Stiffness wise, I'd say they are very similar, I have a hard time differentiating between them. I would say that the flex pattern is different-- the 98s have a more round pattern but the 78s and 88s are snappier along the length and shovel. Mind you, this is subjective hand flexing.

I would agree with Mike, the Ingstad strikes me as a softer ski. The Nansen would be my choice in that line-up for stiffer touring speed.

AHH- I salute you sir- you are describing the flex pattern here- that round pattern in the flex is designed for turn initiation/completion. The "snappiness" of the S-78/S-88 offers a bit more "kick" than the S-98/S-112.

I find the flex pattern of the Madshus XCDs to all be very similar- they get progressively stiffer (slightly) from Eon to Annum.

I expected the Ingstad to be softer than the Nansen/E-99...I didn't expect it to be as soft as an Eon or S-78 (or even softer?)

Being softer than the S-Bounds doesn't lineup with our report from our friend (can't remember his name) that owns the Ingstad and had them traditionally-sized at Neptune for K&G...?

[MikeK]

Being softer than the S-Bounds doesn't lineup with our report from our friend (can't remember his name) that owns the Ingstad and had them traditionally-sized at Neptune for K&G...?

He was light (160 I think) and on a 200cm. 160lb on a 205 Eon would probably give you a wax pocket too.

[lilcliffy]

Very good- if there is any detail I will forget- it is a personal detail...

Yes- at 160lbs, he would certainly get a small wax pocket on a 205cm Eon- I do at 185lbs.

Very good point- so it could easily be as soft as the Eon/S-78 (or even softer).

If the Ingstad is as soft (or softer) than a Madshus XCD/S-Bound- my limited test of the E-109 would suggest that it is stiffer and more-cambered than the Ingstad...(I'm starting to change my mind again about which ski I want ...)

My mind keeps coming back to elder Gamme's chart- I still think "responsiveness" has a lot to do with the "swing" or turning performance of the skis on his chart. The Nansen is a stiff ski- the E-99 is stiffer than the Ingstad as well- they must be more responsive than the Ingstad- especially on dense snow? The E-109 scored higher in "turniness" than the Ingstad as well- possibly again, a result of its stiffer flex?

For example- my Atomic all-mountain Alpine skis (smoke Ti) are much stiffer and more rigid than my Guides. They are incredible responsive on dense snow- the Guide feels like a limp noodle if you put it on edge over dense snow (but turns like a champ in the pow).

[MikeK]

I wonder if the turning response of the E-109 has to do with it's shape? And less to do with camber.

Although they don't rate it very fast either. I read a report on BWCA forum that stated they were double cambered and different than the S Bounds. The author had both.

[Cannatonic]

these skis all work well - you can do what I did - go with the best artwork/graphics. I'm getting the ones with the dog next!