The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[dschane]

That's it eh? I'm thinking you didn't really read it all....

Barely read any of it. Watched a couple short videos. Got the idea. Got nothing to add but an off-topic note re correct placement of Scarpa stickers.

[Raventele]

?? Slapped them on the outside as per.Don't do much either way really.

[Johnny]

Dear Knights Templar of XCD,

What about hybrid boots that incorporate both plastic cuffs and leather?

What say ye of those? Telemark or XC?

Oh! That's a good one!
But the XCD Doctrine is very strict. NO plastics at all! The doctrine is several centuries old, so they probably didn't foresee the plastic revolution coming. I think what the doctrine means is that no kind of plastic "support" is allowed. So our beloved Super Comps are unfortunately not XCD.

A lot of newer boots from Rossi, Fischer and Alpina do have plastics. But they still allow all the foot parts to move freely, so it's legal to the eyes of the XCD police. (They wouldn't dare releasing an illegal product on the market!)

NNN/BC non-fishscale

[video][/video]

This is GREAT CIMA. Look at that high stance, look at the perfect balance. No need to fight with the terrain, just embrace it. No need to be aggressive and dissect terrain with stiff and active gear. This is so cool. Why don't you invite your friend Telehero over here?

[Raventele]

Yea! Great vid, Cima..and wonderful snow..AND look at those fat XC skis!!!
I do think there's a lot to be learned about saving the knees and not wasting energy in this vid..
And I really like to watch him when he gets on those T2's and hits the slopes..

[Raventele]

Raventele,

Right , except for the 100's of hours I have spent using NNN for XC and doing every possible turn I can manage -- at the Nordic center, at the sledding hills and, of course, in my backyard. (If there is a big difference in lateral support/stiffness, you can show us with a few simple pix to contrast with those I already posted, Cima!!)

Sorry, no pictures nor videos available for you.
You got much, and I got less, always.
You haven't shown any persuasive materials, yet.

I dare say it seems you have not spent a similar amount of time on pins -- not even the old flimsy-bail
version! So what are we left to think of your pins critique, if we judge you by your proposed sour-grapes standards ?

The gear configuration of mine for telemark skiing is the following:

• Trab FreeRando 108/78/93
• Scarpa T4
• Voile Switchback

I rode on them for four seasons at least.

Whereas one of the gear configurations of Raveantele for XCD (by his definition) is the following:

• K2 Backup 124/82/105
• Scarpa T2 eco
• Voile Switchback

So, where is the difference in experience of skiing between them?

In addition, I've skied on Scarpa Binson/Crispi Antarctic, Rottefella Super Telemark and BD Saint Elias a few times. It was so easy for me to telemark. Even such small experience was enough for me.

If I borrow a biking analogy of LJ, you're still riding on bike with relying on training wheels.
Are you going to say to the guys riding on the bikes freely already that they should get back to the training wheels and take their videos to show you any proofs? Please don't be ridiculous.

I remembered the following:

The truth, just the truth..On our recent trip to Co. we did one day at a nordic center where I rented some NNN/"BC" boots and bindings.."Won't fit in the tracks," they said..but they did..Around this area in the pic I says to myself "BC huh ?" and stepped off into some nice light snow..sunk to my knees.. NNN/"BC" ? bullshit..they were no better or worse on the groomed nordic than stock nordic track gear and they had no relevance to "BC", period. They would ski 4 inches of light snow on a packed surface, but so would about any other Nordic track gear..NNN or SNS BC is nonsense..

I wonder why you had such a miserable experience in Colorado. You had already spent 100 hours of time for riding on NNN until then, hadn't you? Such long time of practice on normal NNN/SNS is good enough for any skiers to ski beautifully on NNN/BC. If your instructor of XC was wrong, come over here and take a few hour lessons by telehero. That'll be well worth a round air ticket from Vermont.

But seriously, exactly how much XC is involved in Cima's vids ? Right, none.. Just climbing up to ski down..

Oh, would you like to watch my video where I keep just walking on trails on my SNS/BC for three hours?
That must be very boring. I wouldn't see such the video.

So now "walking" counts as XCD ?
I don't recall saying that I use my T2's, Backups and 3pin HW for XCD , other than as a joke perhaps..I will climb some with that gear..
You need to stay truthful! What I did say is that I use the T4's , Voile 3pin/cables and either Alpina Xterrians or lite Terrains for XCD..huge difference..
I never had a miserable time at all in Co Xc skiing on that "BC" gear..I just found it inadequate for anything other thna XC skiing .
Perform the same test I did with my NNN XC setup with one of your "BC" setups..Take a couple pix and show us how laterally stable the NNN/BC really is. Why not ?
"BC" under "Nordic" has become a meaningless catch-all.
You criticize me for forming an opinion of NNN/BC based on a lot of experience with NNN/XC and a little with NNN/BC and yet you do even worse with pins because you have not skied even weak pins a LOT..Now that's a bit odd..

[Johnny]

Raventele,

The World XCD Council position about skis is stated very clearly. They are very strict when it comes to boots, but they don't care much skis. If you have XC boots, you can ski whatever you want and legitimately call it XCD as long as the tip width is under 110mm. (Which means 109mm and below.)

[Raventele]

Ok, good.. I just wanted to make sure I would be legit skiing those great huge fat skis Telehiro is on..
But really it all needs to go back to leather on the boots!
Cima, send me those big fat skis of Hiro's and the most laterally-stable boot and binding combination that fits the Japanese model for skiing ez snow!
I guess these boot should do..something called "all-around".. a new category!

[Raventele]

The Kings of XCD gear!!!


and, of course ..

[MikeK]

?? Slapped them on the outside as per.Don't do much either way really.

That is a pretty terrible diagram. Damn Italian engineers!

I'm guessing that based on where they want those things, it really means put them on the inside. Maybe that is what the dotted line means?

[MikeK]

Dear Knights Templar of XCD,

What about hybrid boots that incorporate both plastic cuffs and leather?

What say ye of those? Telemark or XC?

Oh! That's a good one!
But the XCD Doctrine is very strict. NO plastics at all! The doctrine is several centuries old, so they probably didn't foresee the plastic revolution coming. I think what the doctrine means is that no kind of plastic "support" is allowed. So our beloved Super Comps are unfortunately not XCD.

Oh dear! That means my new Crispi Svartisen boots are.... Telemark?

I truly have crossed over to the dark side. I'll have to start smoking pot again and put my hair in dreadlocks. Should I quit my job and buy a van? What about my North Face jacket? Can I still wear that?

I hate conforming. Maybe I'll just stay the way I am and ski those boots. That'll make a statement eh?