The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[MikeK]

Ron,

You've exceeded your 15 wpd bold quota. Please report to Johnny's skimobile for sentencing.

God speed,

Mike

[dschane]

I'm impressed, 25+ pages. The only tip I can offer is the black patches pictured below go inside the plastic boot to protect the liners. Really, they test one's dexterity while working in small spaces.

[MikeK]

I'm impressed, 25+ pages. The only tip I can offer is the black patches pictured below go inside the plastic boot to protect the liners. Really, they test one's dexterity while working in small spaces.

That's it eh? I'm thinking you didn't really read it all.

And who has egg all over their face now?

The things I learn on forums...

[CIMA]

Ron,
You've exceeded your 15 wpd bold quota

Ha-ha!
I nearly lost my hearing.

[CIMA]

MikeK,

I'm still here but the conversation has gone a bit weird for me again... not seeing anything new that hasn't already been mentioned.

Thanks for your comment, and sorry for having got you bored with alchemy.
I've already been bored to death also for hearing stability stuff over and over again. I'd rather sit back and read pure engineering papers.

[CIMA]

LJ,

But calling everything XCD just because it's cool really pisses me off. Skiing with PLASTIC, "TELEMARK" boots will NEVER be cross-country skiing, whether you like it or not.

-You ski with TELEMARK boots? Then you're doing what we call telemark.
-You ski with XC boots? Then you are doing telemark turns with cross-country boots. Also called XCD.

Thanks very much for giving us clear definitions.
I'll be with them from now on.

[CIMA]

Raventele,

Right , except for the 100's of hours I have spent using NNN for XC and doing every possible turn I can manage -- at the Nordic center, at the sledding hills and, of course, in my backyard. (If there is a big difference in lateral support/stiffness, you can show us with a few simple pix to contrast with those I already posted, Cima!!)

Sorry, no pictures nor videos available for you.
You got much, and I got less, always.
You haven't shown any persuasive materials, yet.

I dare say it seems you have not spent a similar amount of time on pins -- not even the old flimsy-bail
version! So what are we left to think of your pins critique, if we judge you by your proposed sour-grapes standards ?

The gear configuration of mine for telemark skiing is the following:

• Trab FreeRando 108/78/93
• Scarpa T4
• Voile Switchback

I rode on them for four seasons at least.

Whereas one of the gear configurations of Raveantele for XCD (by his definition) is the following:

• K2 Backup 124/82/105
• Scarpa T2 eco
• Voile Switchback

So, where is the difference in experience of skiing between them?

In addition, I've skied on Scarpa Binson/Crispi Antarctic, Rottefella Super Telemark and BD Saint Elias a few times. It was so easy for me to telemark. Even such small experience was enough for me.

If I borrow a biking analogy of LJ, you're still riding on bike with relying on training wheels.
Are you going to say to the guys riding on the bikes freely already that they should get back to the training wheels and take their videos to show you any proofs? Please don't be ridiculous.

I remembered the following:

The truth, just the truth..On our recent trip to Co. we did one day at a nordic center where I rented some NNN/"BC" boots and bindings.."Won't fit in the tracks," they said..but they did..Around this area in the pic I says to myself "BC huh ?" and stepped off into some nice light snow..sunk to my knees.. NNN/"BC" ? bullshit..they were no better or worse on the groomed nordic than stock nordic track gear and they had no relevance to "BC", period. They would ski 4 inches of light snow on a packed surface, but so would about any other Nordic track gear..NNN or SNS BC is nonsense..

I wonder why you had such a miserable experience in Colorado. You had already spent 100 hours of time for riding on NNN until then, hadn't you? Such long time of practice on normal NNN/SNS is good enough for any skiers to ski beautifully on NNN/BC. If your instructor of XC was wrong, come over here and take a few hour lessons by telehero. That'll be well worth a round air ticket from Vermont.

But seriously, exactly how much XC is involved in Cima's vids ? Right, none.. Just climbing up to ski down..

Oh, would you like to watch my video where I keep just walking on trails on my SNS/BC for three hours?
That must be very boring. I wouldn't see such the video.

[CIMA]

When I show the lateral weakness of NNN, I hear "That's because it's not NNN/BC ; your NNN is just plain old XC!" Now, let's pause and think about that..The underlying claim is that there is this special class of System gear that is not XC at all

I wonder how you could reach those extreme conclusions.
Please have a look at the catalogs of Alpina, Fischer, Madshus, Rossignol and Salomon.

For the ski makers making both alpine and nordic skis, it is natural to translate the word "nordic" to "cross-country (XC)," right?

Then the classifications of their products look like the followings:

• Alpine
• Nordic (XC)
  • Race
  • Leisure
  • Cruising/Touring
  • Backcountry

Thus, NNN(SNS)/BC is a member of the set "XC" for sure.

By looking at your pictures, you're currently using the bindings and boots for Race or Leisure, right? They are designed for walking/running/skating and not for descending the slopes actively. The descending is left for the BC bindings.

By Salomon's definition even the SNS Pilot bindings, which you've been touting, are supposed to be used for race or leisure. They're not designed for BC use and may lack reliability for heavy-duty. Like your saying above, the SNS Pilot is also a special class of system bindings.

Therefore, you seem to have just chosen wrong tools and may have come to wrong conclusions.

Although Alpina and Fischer still carry a few 75mm boots, NNN/SNS gear dominates. That's the reality. Thus, XCD is definitely the skiing on NNN/SNS system from a worldwide point of view today. It would be appropriate for you to change your definition and call your current skiing style on 3-pins light telemark.

[CIMA]

Getting popular.

[video][/video]

[CIMA]

NNN/BC non-fishscale

[video][/video]