Two different types of short radius turn

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dschane

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby dschane » Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:00 pm

Fake-a-mark.

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CIMA

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby CIMA » Wed Apr 22, 2015 8:19 pm

Telemark may look differently depending on one's background of skiing. That is like seeing a coin from different sides.
If skiers have alpine background, they may accept naturally putting on heavy gear and following CANSI's style.
On the other hand, if they have XC background, they may prefer light gear and TH's style.

Though the following vid is old and doesn't reflect currenty teaching style of TH, you may get something untraditional and sense a flavor of XC.

video
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.

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Johnny

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby Johnny » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:57 am

Fake marks! I knew there was a word for it... 8-)

This approach is very, very interesting CIMA... It's something nobody wouldn't dare to do here. But I guess there ain't no such thing as XCD instructors here yet... It's funny because CANSI represent both telemark and XC instructors... They should add XCD and learn from TH's teaching... Oh wait, there's no use, we the Knights Templar of XCD are already doing this... ; )

Do you know that clubman thing? This is *perfect* telemark skiing. Nothing to do with the red coat CANSI guy. Look at the first guy at 0:20... Every turn perfectly carved, short or medium radius turns. Perfect stance, both skis weighted perfectly with BOF, back leg at the right place. No useless loss of energy, no skidding. One pole touching the ground, the other one in the air, and some nice cock grabs... Puuurfect! (But totally wrong according to Ron...) As perfect as TH, just a different style.

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzVBlyknRDk[/video]
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CIMA

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby CIMA » Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:06 pm

Yeah, I know that clubman vid. We see many instructors demonstrating such style over here.
Their styles don't look bad at all.
They're usually equipped with modern heavy gear, and it is rare to see them on 3-pins and leather.
Unfortunately I haven't learned much from their techniques.
I may be the one who's seeing telemark from a XC side.
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.

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MikeK

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby MikeK » Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:10 am

Hiro's video showed some interesting things. Most of which I relate to carving, not necessarily to telemark.

There was a video posted on here which showed some similar technique to Hiro's wide stance, swing carve initiation for beginners that was similar in Alpine (I had never seen it before then and thought it was an interesting teaching concept). I try to do this same technique when practicing turning. I cannot keep a compact stance and balance like he can, so I need to be more like his beginner technique. I think the point is getting that lead ski to edge and turn whilst keeping weight on the rear foot, then edging the rear ski later. As he progresses in speed and tightness of stance, I can see he edges the rear ski much sooner and thus keeps the skis more parallel. It's very cool to see the progression like that because it's hard to pick out in his short radius turns that he is doing the same thing... it looks so much more fluid and smooth when it's sped up and the motions more subtle.

I wish I could understand what he was saying or the text at some points. I feel like there something important I needed to understand particularly when he is showing the very exaggerated wedged progression.

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CIMA

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby CIMA » Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:41 am

MikeK wrote:I wish I could understand what he was saying or the text at some points. I feel like there something important I needed to understand particularly when he is showing the very exaggerated wedged progression.

He said in the vid that the effective side-curve consisting of the lead and back skis was the basic of telemark turn. He also said that you didn't block the back ski by weighting the lead ski too much; that is a common mistake that beginners fall into.
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.

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MikeK

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby MikeK » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:31 am

Those things sound exactly like the introductory chapter of XCD by Steve Barnett. Both helpful tips BTW.

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lowangle al

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby lowangle al » Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:50 pm

My thoughts on this thread:

There is way more than 2 ways to make a particular type turn.

What makes th's turns short radius? They are short duration, he gets in and out of them quickly, but he is staying close to the fall line which to me is a longer radius turn.

Tele is tele regardless of the gear, if done properly. I don't feel my turns are more alpine on heavy gear and I don't have any problem getting my bof down on any boots. It takes a while to get the same feel with plastic boots as with leather especially if you learned on leather. The techniques for light and heavy tele are the same and the style can be the same also, but as surface conditions get more difficult you need a bigger bag of tricks with light gear. It is true that heavy gear will enable a skier with poor technique to better negotiate difficult conditions than on light gear because of the increased stability.

Freedom of light gear vs heavy gear. I have way more freedom to ski where and how I want on heavier gear than on light gear.

On light boots it is easier to find your centered and balanced position and also to feel your edges, than on heavy gear, but once you get them dialed in on heavy gear the limits of what you can ski will increase dramaticaly.

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lowangle al

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby lowangle al » Mon Apr 27, 2015 3:04 pm

I want to add that I wouldn't want to ski or recomend skiing like the guy in the cansi vid, and can't believe someone is teaching to ski that way.

I also feel that anyone interested in learning telemark should have a pair of plastic boots, even if they are mostly an "xcd" skier. I think you will learn quicker going back and forth on different gear than sticking with one type exclusivly.

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CIMA

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Re: Two different types of short radius turn

Postby CIMA » Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:00 pm

It is almost impossible for me to do turns on heavy gear like I do on NNN/SNS BC.
The key point would be the freedom of ankles.
If ones cannot make use of that freedom and force themselves to the styles they learned on heavy gear, they will highly likely get miserable results with light gear. Then they will blame on fragile gear and won't try to review their ways to ski with it.
The flowing river never stops and yet the water never stays the same.


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