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Nice run. You look good to me. Was there anything here that you thought was off at all?
Re: Technique feedback thread - post a video.
Posted: Tue Mar 05, 2024 11:14 am
by Lhartley
Thx Montana
No, I'm happy with my progress. Maybe tighten up the stance a bit, I'm into an upright style. This was pretty low angle good snow though, hoping to get some resort time this year and get really dialed.
Was also told I make stabbing actions with my pole plants too, so I'll have to correct that. Like this?
No, I'm happy with my progress. Maybe tighten up the stance a bit, I'm into an upright style. This was pretty low angle good snow though, hoping to get some resort time this year and get really dialed.
Was also told I make stabbing actions with my pole plants too, so I'll have to correct that. Like this?Screenshot_20240305_141637_Gallery.jpg
I think you have the mechanics of the turn down pretty well. The first and easiest thing I would recommend would be to shorten your poles. I'm 5'9" and like 110cm for the downhill, especially when it's technical.
I also think you can work on your stance. You may or may not be too spread out, but I do think you need to move your body back towards your trailing foot more. I tend to bend at the waist more. This lets me get my butt back over that rear foot better and gives me better balance, especially with your arms out forward. If you don't get your butt back your weight will be too far forward, so you might have to play with it.
Re: Technique feedback thread - post a video.
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 11:58 am
by Lhartley
Thanks for the feedback Al, agree on all points. Will check my poles, I had shortened then I think to 130cm (actually yes I'm seeing that's too long still. I'm 6' ish so should be at 120cm to make a 90' angle at the elbow I think?) or something but I don't think too hard on that subject, I think I'll make a mark on them for descents so I don't need to look at numbers
Re: Technique feedback thread - post a video.
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:34 pm
by lowangle al
Most people don't think too much about their poles. Short poles might not help you learn to telemark ski, but poles too long will certainly hinder the process. Don't be afraid to go too short for the downhill. I don't think it will hurt you, and not only will you think about them less they won't interfere with your turns.
Re: Technique feedback thread - post a video.
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:46 pm
by Montana St Alum
I'm going to go in the other direction a bit.
I think any stance issues you might have had in your video was primarily due to the low angle of the slope. It's easier to really engage when you have more energy (speed) that you can harness for turns.
I'm just under 5'9" tall. My poles are 40" from basket to bottom of grip and 49" from end to end (125cm). IME, for those who want an upright stance, and especially for bump skiing, most people tend to go too short on the poles. If you shorten your poles, you will tend to be less extended (less upright) and as you drop down in your stance, your leg spread will increase. (This will definitely make you more stable, but stability slows down response time and general edge to edge quickness.)
The downside to short poles tends to be exaggerated as the incline increases because you have to reach downhill, to the side, for the pole plant just because the terrain drops away. There have been several times when I've handed my poles to someone taller than me who had shorter poles and they seemed to have an epiphany in bumps. It was instantly a noticeable improvement.
Also, most of my turning is on the inside edge of the forward ski. That is your most powerful edge. It's also your more predictable edge angle, as the bottom of the foot is in plane with your ski. If you shift your weight back onto the trailing ski, you will lose some of that carving and edging authority and accuracy.
It's that weight on the front ski and the (very) small amount of forward pressure against the cuff of the front boot that really speed things up in the bumps. Get your weight back like that in the bumps and two things tend to happen (to me).
One is that my ability to check turn is degraded and speed control in the bumps is critical.
Secondly, more weight back shifts weight onto the leg that is bent (requiring more muscle strength). The front leg, being straighter, can carry the load more through the skeleton. My endurance on long bump runs is dramatically better when I can engage the skeleton more to carry the load.
The downside is that much more fore/aft balance and quicker reactions to forces that throw you fore or aft become critical. In fact, that becomes a limiting factor in how close you can get your stance. As you tighten your stance front or back you will be more upright, but your resistance to "going over the handlebars" increases as well. Think of that back leg extension as the counterbalance that prevents you from going forward over the front - it's the cheetah's tail at full sprint, offsetting forces in addition to being another edge you can use to finesse your turns. Tighten that up, and it will reduce your resistance to being thrown forward. Extend it and your front aft balance is better, but at the cost of quickness. It's not easy, but if you can dial that in, it dramatically improves how quickly you can go from turn to turn.
For sure, try both techniques and everything in between. I have a female friend with super short poles who gets into VERY deep knee drops in the bumps. It works for her goals, but it really slows her turn transitions and as a result she spends all of her "bump time" in the troughs. I don't always achieve my goals, but one is to be able to turn anywhere on the mogul (EXCEPT IN the troughs. I don't like having the terrain dictate where I turn. Of course, the terrain often has other ideas!).
My objective is for my stance to be identical on low angle groomers, medium angle bumps and steep powder. Switch opens a very large can of worms, and hard arced carving is something I can only do if I'm really low in my stance. I shouldn't need to get low to do it, but I'm just not there yet!
Re: Technique feedback thread - post a video.
Posted: Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:12 pm
by lowangle al
Here is some advice for anyone trying to get to the next level. Take all advice with a "grain of salt." There are so many differences in skiing style, skill level, gear, goals, snow conditions and interpretation of the advice that not all advice is going to work, even if it's good advice. Take advice and try it out, if it works stick with it. If it doesn't file it away in the back of your mind and it may "hit home" someday. If you use the advice in this way and keep practicing eventually you will have enough salt for tasty dish.
One thing I want to say about my last post is that when I say to get back over your rear foot more, it is to get better centered, not to be in the back seat. MSA is a fine skier, he skis predominantly with his lead ski. Moving your weight back will help you get more centered over both skis. I'm not a resort skier and don't ski bumps, but if I did I'd probably be more front ski dominant in that situation. It's what works there.
Pole length is a personal preference, and whatever length you use is fine as long as they are not keeping you from being well balanced.
"Here is some advice for anyone trying to get to the next level. Take all advice with a "grain of salt." There are so many differences in skiing style, skill level, gear, goals, snow conditions and interpretation of the advice that not all advice is going to work, even if it's good advice. Take advice and try it out, if it works stick with it. If it doesn't file it away in the back of your mind and it may "hit home" someday. If you use the advice in this way and keep practicing eventually you will have enough salt for tasty dish."
It's all very much appreciated. I haven't had instruction or thought much about technique since I was a 14 year old in an alpine racing program. Between then and now I've picked up all sorts of bad habits snowboarding, then splitboarding, and then survival skiing in the absolute worst conditions during alpine touring. It's refreshing to focus on technique and fine tune the art of sliding down a slope in a completely different way. And the FRIENDLY feedback from strangers is encouraging and helpful.
Here is some advice for anyone trying to get to the next level. Take all advice with a "grain of salt." There are so many differences in skiing style, skill level, gear, goals, snow conditions and interpretation of the advice that not all advice is going to work, even if it's good advice. Take advice and try it out, if it works stick with it. If it doesn't file it away in the back of your mind and it may "hit home" someday. If you use the advice in this way and keep practicing eventually you will have enough salt for tasty dish.
One thing I want to say about my last post is that when I say to get back over your rear foot more, it is to get better centered, not to be in the back seat. MSA is a fine skier, he skis predominantly with his lead ski. Moving your weight back will help you get more centered over both skis. I'm not a resort skier and don't ski bumps, but if I did I'd probably be more front ski dominant in that situation. It's what works there.
Pole length is a personal preference, and whatever length you use is fine as long as they are not keeping you from being well balanced.
Quite true. I hope I didn't come across as having the Holy Grail!