Telemark Talk / Telemark Tips Forum

Maybe if grit, sand, etc gets in between the boot interface around the pins and the pin recess on the binding, the rubber gets ground up. Just make sure your boot is clean before inserting.

To BCskier44 - I would love to see a photo edge on as some others have posted. Given the wide variations in experience displayed so far, I have to wonder if there was an issue with the location of the mechanism within the mold such that it is lower and thus had less material covering it. Having just recently bought a pair of Vistas, I hope this is not a widespread issue. Examining my boots, which have touched nothing but carpet (I don't even have bindings yet), I would say there is just under 1/8" - or for those north of thr border, 3mm - of material covering the visible part of the mechanism. I wonder if there is noticeable variation in that coverage?
'

telerat wrote: ↑

Sun Dec 10, 2023 6:35 pm

I also have wear, especially at the outer sides,

@telerat

Do you use the boots more for: 1. Straight touring 2. Making turns

If the answer is 2. I’m thinking the outside edge at the pin cylinder is under the most stress as you go on to the inside edge of the ski. The sole material is failing under that stress.

@Bcskier44

I can’t imagine what kind of skiing your doing!

I could see using wider skis could cause even more stress on the sole too.

I have updated my original post. The wear was on the inner sides and almost certainly comes from hiking on gravel and asphalt with the boots. The pins/cylinders felt securely anchored to the boots on my last ski outing, but I will inspect them more thoroughly for play. I hope/think the pins are better secured than just a cylinder with thin rubber cover, but do not know anything about the actual construction and will not dissect the boots before they fail. I did make many turns with quite some stress in the Easter 2023, without noticing any play.

I use the Skaget boots for hiking to and from Nordic/touring ice skating, as not having to bring and change boots are very nice. Regular NNN also works for that, but having a proper rubber sole is much better both for walking comfort and especially for grip on ice/hard snow. Wear on boots will of course be much much higher in this use scenario.

I would not worry about this wear if I only use Xplore boots on snow and skis and only short walks to the trailhead.

The design of ski-touring boots should allow for their use as walking boots.

If you stand in the main railway station of any major city here on a Saturday morning during the ski-touring season (ca. mid-February to mid-May) you’ll see scores of people milling about carrying rucksacks, touring skis and…..wearing touring boots. They’ll have had the boots on when they left home, on the walk to their local railway station, around the main station, on the train and then when they change platforms/trains/buses. When they reach their destination they’ll wear the touring boots from the railway station/bus stop along gritted roads to the point where they put the skis on. Similarly, when they come off the mountain the skis go on the rucksack and they’ll walk along roads to the nearest railway station and then all the way home, in the reverse order of the above.

Of course I’m referring to alpine touring equipment, but if you were to stand in Oslo Central Station or Bus Terminal early on any morning in the two-week run-up to Easter, you would see a similar picture – but the equipment would be Nordic, not alpine. On tour (with rucksack) few people want to carry the extra weight/bulk of street shoes, they mostly just have light slippers to wear in the cabins, so they wear their touring shoes. When they get off the train they might want to go to the village shops to get last-minute stuff, which would often involve walking along heavily gritted roads/footpaths (sidewalks). Although in the Norwegian mountains between December and May you won’t have to walk far to find snow, you still can’t reckon on just stepping out of the train/bus and putting skis on.

There is no clear definition of what constitutes a ski-tour. It means different things to different people. To some it means driving to the end of the ploughed section of road, changing into skiing gear and doing a round-tour back to the car. For others it involves travelling from A to B across rugged terrain, often with road access/walking at tour begin and tour end, sometimes even mid-tour. A touring boot should accommodate both types of skiers – not just the car tourists who wear their boots only for skiing.

The impression I’m getting from this thread, thanks to the two members who have shown abrasion at a critical point on the boot, is that there is very little material below the cylinder moulding, and that this material can be rapidly abraded if the boots are used for walking, increasing the likelihood of the cylinder being ripped out of the moulding. Furthermore, such damage would be irreparable, as the moulding is in the mid-section of the boot to which the boot-upper is bonded. As no one would want to risk a cylinder rip-out mid-tour, the boots would have to be retired before the few millimetres of material below the cylinder are worn right through.

These boots are not made for walking – of course neither Rottefella nor any of the boot manufacturers are likely to point that out. As long as they can keep the advertising focus on the downhill abilities of the system (and its lightness/step-in convenience) they will be able to sell the products, especially to the “trailhead” category of tourists. At some point down the road the combination of increased purchase cost and (possible) short life-expectancy might well cause consumers to have a rethink. I don’t see the NNN BC and 75mm NN systems becoming obsolete in the near future.

I’m still on the fence – as I’d like to think I’m wrong, but my gut feeling is that this system is not for me.

.......now where did I put that tinfoil hat?

I've put 100+ miles on Rossi XP12's.
There is some abrasion, but nothing serious whatsoever. I expect to get at least hundreds of more miles out of them.

In this thread I have only seen Alfa XP boots with serious damage. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But perhaps the $700+ boot that is now on fire sale for $2-300 has some manufacturing issues? I mean, it's really weird to discount a boot that much...

aclyon wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:08 pm

I've put 100+ miles on Rossi XP12's.
There is some abrasion, but nothing serious whatsoever. I expect to get at least hundreds of more miles out of them.

In this thread I have only seen Alfa XP boots with serious damage. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But perhaps the $700+ boot that is now on fire sale for $2-300 has some manufacturing issues? I mean, it's really weird to discount a boot that much...

The soles on all XP boots are manufactured by Rottefella. Do you think they are doing something during the boot construction process (that other manufacturers aren't) to compromise the soles?

aclyon wrote: ↑

Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:08 pm

I've put 100+ miles on Rossi XP12's.
There is some abrasion, but nothing serious whatsoever. I expect to get at least hundreds of more miles out of them.

In this thread I have only seen Alfa XP boots with serious damage. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But perhaps the $700+ boot that is now on fire sale for $2-300 has some manufacturing issues? I mean, it's really weird to discount a boot that much...

If a boot doesn't last me at minimum 1,000 miles I have no interest, unless it's like 30 to 80 bucks. Your second point is very, very interesting. Makes me wonder who discounted it, the retail outlets, or Alfa, or some combo deal or what.

@Jurassic , "I don’t see the NNN BC and 75mm NN systems becoming obsolete in the near future.

I’m still on the fence – as I’d like to think I’m wrong, but my gut feeling is that this system is not for me.

.......now where did I put that tinfoil hat?"

Then where are all stylin', lightweight and newfangled $#@¥%π$#in leather 3 pin boots I've been searching for?

Hey man I'm confused, why did you take off the hat? Aren't you committed?

P.S. great post @Jurassien.

@wabene, we still have Crispi cranking out these awesome 75mm boots. In fact, I would say Crispi's limited line of 75mm is more stylish and practical than almost the entirety of other norm boots combined.