Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

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Hyalite
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Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Hyalite » Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:39 pm

Hello, this is my first post on Ttalk, so an intro. Living in Bozeman MT for the past seven years chasing snow after the prior 55 in S.E. Wisconsin. Saddened me to experience the shift in consistent snow coverage at the wonderful Kettle Morraine Forest, so I bailed and now have a nice long ski season here in altitude. My choices of where I ski have changed since arrival, from skate at a “club” atmosphere to solely seeking backcountry solace a few times a week up in Hyalite Canyon. Needless to say the terrain and snow are quite different than dear old Wisco and hence ski needs. Being older, retired, and on fixed income I prefer not to throw away money so I’m reaching out for some advice here.

I’m 63, stand 5’9” and weigh in low 150’s. Cut my teeth on waxable Splitkein “miler” boards but then over the years went the way of skate skiing. Now for the last several years I stick to the less traveled and either rarely groomed or never groomed trails that are rough in nature. I bought a set of 179 E88’s as find they work well for me in so much as I typically have climbing to do right out of the gate to get to where the rolling stuff begins, then a drop back down to the car. The e88’s climb great and glide better than they out to, but it’s more of a shuffle glide and certainly they don’t encourage me to try to get athletic with them due to the weight. Use Rotte 3 pin with Alaska boots.

What advice I’m hoping to garner here from anyone who can relate to this type of terrain and low moisture snow (lots of it) is what Asnes ski choices would compliment the e88’s. Of course ive read about the Gamme and the Nansen and I’m left drooling for a pair of good waxable skis that I can actually kick and truly glide on. Hoping to be able to cover more distance and all the while enjoy myself more for maintaining a decent fitness level year around. Lots of fresh snow, many times daily an inch or two, many times much more. If it gets real deep the e88’s work well on the downhills, but in certain ways it’s a lot to push through the snow, albeit so so stable.

Any thoughts on those two skis or others from Asnes that are waxable. I guess I’d like to stick with the same boot and binding combo, but I also have a new set of NNN-BC bindings and Fischer BC boots I could make use of if the ski would benefit from it.

Thank you all in advance for any sage advice. Brian

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Manney
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Manney » Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:43 am

The good news is that your height and weight put just about every ski out there at your disposal. The next bit of good news is that you’re starting the search/conversation early… you will know what you want and will make best use of your $s at the end of the season.

The tricky bit about a place like Bozeman is that the terrain if “complete”. But you’re finding the challenges this offers because one ski can’t “do it all”. If k&g is your focus, maybe a Mountain Race. It would slot in below the E88 in terms of underfoot width. It’s light, has a 3/4 edge.

Your pretty much in the middle of a 190 ski… which is perfect because you won’t be fighting the ski or snow as you might be if your size was at one extreme of the range or another.
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lilcliffy
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Nov 13, 2023 10:50 am

Hello and Welcome Brian!

I have the Fischer 88 and a number of the Asnes fjellskis-

If you have a lot of fresh, cold- and often deep- snow-
- Combat NATO
or
- Ingstad BC

Combat NATO:
- for maximum deep snow stability and trail-breaking efficiency- great, but skis long when you point em downhill;
- more efficient XC ski than Ingstad BC on all snow conditions

Ingstad BC:
- (stable as well in deep snow- and decent deep soft snow trail-breaker)- dreamier downhill with the rocker shovel and shorter effective edge;
- decent XC performance in deep soft snow- terrible XC ski on consolidated snow

If you are looking for something that is even more efficient XC- Amundsen BC; Gamme 54 BC.
However- neither of these skis will be more efficient XC skis than the Combat NATO in deep soft snow.

The Combat NATO is much lighter and faster than the Fischer 88- especially with grip/kick wax vs scales.

Keep in touch and let us know how you make out!
Gareth
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



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Manney
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Manney » Mon Nov 13, 2023 11:50 am

It’s an interesting challenge. The Mountain Race would be great for kick and glide, but limited in terms of float for sure. My Combat NATOs otoh are superbly supportive and good at bashing… not my first choice for a k&g ski tho. They only “work” for me when the need for support outweighs the need for k&g.

Talking flats here of course… on the climb the Combat NATOs would crush any k&g ski. No contest on the down either… the Combat NATO would win but isn’t the best turning ski out there.

The OP might need to narrow things down in his mind a bit then. If the snow in his area consolidates well or gets wind packed, then float isn’t a big concern… the snow pack firms up and doesn’t require a ski with float. We see this sort of thing on snow covered open (not ringed by thick forest) lake beds all the time. It’s not ice but you would barely make a dent on it while walking (just toe and heel dents… zero “plunge” thru the snow because it’s so firm).

If the snow is more like Japow (soft, fluffy, and DEEP) then k&g isn’t in the cards. A k&g oriented ski will be more work than it’s worth.

Part of the issue is that the E88 is somewhere near the middle of all this (E99 is exactly in the middle). Good enough k&g in most cases… good enough float in others. Not skewed enough to really highlight its weaknesses on margins that aren’t fully exceeded in the OP’s location.
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Nitram Tocrut
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Nitram Tocrut » Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:24 pm

@Hyalite

My advice must be taken with a grain or two of salt as the conditions I encounter are quite different. We don't fet quite as much snow as you but I will still share my experience with some Asnes skis. My most used skis is the Sverdrup which is only 56 underfoot and 76 at the tip and they would not be my ski if choice if by any chance we received a big snow dump. In that case I would go for the Ingstad. Back to the Sverdrup... I am mentioning this ski as they are pretty good at K&G and they turn extremely well in soft snow. I skied them in over 4 inches is snow on a quite a firm base and it was a blast for the time those conditions remained. It's the ski I choose when I go for a long tour.

The OP wrote : I’m left drooling for a pair of good waxable skis that I can actually kick and truly glide on. Hoping to be able to cover more distance and all the while enjoy myself more for maintaining a decent fitness level year around.

My suggestion might be way off the OP target but that is what I could share with my own experience with Asnes skis. I might be wrong but my feelings are that the Ingstad and the E88 are maybe not different enough? My advice is based on the assumption that he would not ski in knee deep snow... if so forget about everything I wrote :lol:



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Manney
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Manney » Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:00 pm

Agree with where you’re leaning, @Nitram Tocrut. In hunters terms, the Sverdrup is one click on the scope. The MR is prolly two clicks. All moving towards the bull tho.

Combat or Ingstad seem too close to the E88 to make a big difference either way. Words to that effect contained here:
lilcliffy wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:36 am

Versus Åsnes Combat Nato
Hard to say which one performs best when XC skiing in deep, soft snow…I would suggest the 88 with its full 68mm underfoot. Downhill performance is similar.

Versus Åsnes Ingstad BC
The Ingstad BC absolutely kicks the 88’s ass in steep terrain. The Ingstad BC climbs better and offers wondrous turning.
But the 88 is much better XC skiing on consolidated snow.
Deep snow XC performance is a bit better with the 88 due to the wider waist.
Nothing said to suggest much difference (if one can infer anything, it’s that the E88 is better k&g than the Ingstad… so by extension, the Ingstad would be further from the OP’s desire).

Know from personal experience that the Combat NATO isn’t a k&g ski. As the Ingstad is roughly the civilianized version, pretty sure that one won’t get the OP onto target either.

So if the OP is looking for better k&g, the NATO/Ingstad isn’t it. In a contest between the Sverdrup and MR, it’s going to come down to terrain and snow. One will probably give good k&g on the rollers if the snow is biased soft. The other will excel on the flats, especially if the snow is packed by time and wind.
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mca80
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by mca80 » Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:19 pm

Brian,

Welcome. Kettle Morraine is beautiful, but definitely not as consistent snowfall as in the past. But the area around Bozeman is nice too.

You said you now mostly stick to never groomed or rarely groomed trails. So basically hiking trails more or less? Do they get lots of use from other skiers? Snowshoers? That will of course make a difference as to whether your snow is fresh, untouched and deep, or helped along in consolidating by others' use, and which in turn will determine what ski might be best.

I have a Nansen and Finnmark (which is an edgeless Gamme), both in 190cm (I am 5'4" and weight varies from 135 to 155 depending on how much beer and exercise--I sized up from Asnes' reco and for my athletic ability and goals I am glad I did, these are all relatively easy skis to get good kick on so long as sizing is close and your technique is adequate). The Nansen flex profile and camber are such that it's not going to be a very quick k&g ski on any snow condition. It is, however, very capable or at least adequate in all conditions, very fun downhill especially with some open space, and likely floats a little more than Gamme/Finnmark. Nansen is a very forgiving ski and it was recommended to me by the good folks here as my first waxable base bc xc ski, and was an excellent suggestion. I later wanted something I could go faster on and that tracked a little straighter, and without edges because I feared hitting my dog, and the Finnmark fit that bill. But as @lilcliffy stated the quick efficient k&g attributes of Gamme will be rendered null in really deep snow, so it all depends on what your trails are like I suppose. When I am looking for cruising speed on particular hiking trails that are flat and gently rolling with very occassional short steep sections, and get some use by other skiers and snowshoers, I usually take the Finnmarks (which would be even better with the edge, as Gammes, when these trails have had recent use by others). My typical terrain is rolling hills and lake country, i.e. think Vilas County. Either boot/binding setup you have will be fine for any of the skis mentioned in this thread.



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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Montana St Alum » Mon Nov 13, 2023 4:17 pm

Yeah, welcome aboard.
I went to MSU - got there in 1970!
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lilcliffy
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:14 pm

If the snow conditions are easy to grip/kick wax for- the Combat NATO or the Ingstad BC will kick the Fischer 88's ass in terms of efficiency.

Certainly if the snow is mostly consolidated- there are much more efficient XC skis than the Combat NATO- the trade off is more efficient XC skis can be a bit of a challenge if you point them down a steep, tight slope...

I don't think that the Combat NATO/Ingstad BC are too similar to the Fischer 88- very similar to a wax Fischer 88 (ie the old Outtabounds)- but not the scaled Excursion 88...
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Hyalite
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Re: Asnes Quiver addition advice sought

Post by Hyalite » Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:31 pm

Manney wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2023 2:00 pm
Agree with where you’re leaning, @Nitram Tocrut. In hunters terms, the Sverdrup is one click on the scope. The MR is prolly two clicks. All moving towards the bull tho.

Combat or Ingstad seem too close to the E88 to make a big difference either way. Words to that effect contained here:
lilcliffy wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:36 am

Versus Åsnes Combat Nato
Hard to say which one performs best when XC skiing in deep, soft snow…I would suggest the 88 with its full 68mm underfoot. Downhill performance is similar.

Versus Åsnes Ingstad BC
The Ingstad BC absolutely kicks the 88’s ass in steep terrain. The Ingstad BC climbs better and offers wondrous turning.
But the 88 is much better XC skiing on cons@Nitram Tocrut

My head is spinning! But in a nice way. Funny that I haven’t given much thought to my 179 E88’s as to their strengths and weaknesses, but now that so many have chimed in I actually feel I understand my current ski better. I’ve had at least one “oh right” moments. It does k&g ok to well on deeper fresh of 4” to 8” over previously tromped on ground, it climbs really well, it’s not good for me in deep snow going off the trail and attempting to tell turn on it. I teli ski’d at the local Mtn resort for years and thought I was darn good, but just thought I unlearned when the attempt was made on the E 88’s. So…. I really am learning so much from just one question already. I have a feeling that the Ingstad and Combat NATO may be excellent skis, but it was mentioned that they are similar to the E88’s. Sverdrup? But bad in the deep downhills. I already have a challenging go of it on the E88’s, so maybe just maybe I should reconsider my entire scene here. Ingstad/Gamme and 86 the E88’s. Ha ha. I’m lost a bit and need to regroup. I’ll explain my terrain in an answer to another responder here.
Deep snow XC performance is a bit better with the 88 due to the wider waist.
Nothing said to suggest much difference (if one can infer anything, it’s that the E88 is better k&g than the Ingstad… so by extension, the Ingstad would be further from the OP’s desire).

Know from personal experience that the Combat NATO isn’t a k&g ski. As the Ingstad is roughly the civilianized version, pretty sure that one won’t get the OP onto target either.

So if the OP is looking for better k&g, the NATO/Ingstad isn’t it. In a contest between the Sverdrup and MR, it’s going to come down to terrain and snow. One will probably give good k&g on the rollers if the snow is biased soft. The other will excel on the flats, especially if the snow is packed by time and wind.



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