Kick waxing in front and behind my fishscale skis, some questions.

[JB TELE]

I recently purchased some asnes nansens. I wanted a skinnier ski for more consolidated snow conditions when my s-bound 98s were overkill or too much waist width to edge. I like the skis, but the fish scale pattern is smaller and less aggressive than my fischers. Better glide, worse grip. I was thinking I could kick wax in front and behind the fish scales for better grip when needed. Something one step before kicker skins or full length skins are needed, which are annoying to take on and off and kill glide. I've never used kick wax so this is all new to me. Does that make sense?

My main concern is how kick wax will interact with skins. I saw a thread on her where someone mentioned that harder kick waxes (cold) are fine and softer kick waxes (warm) cause issues. If I'm in warmer conditions and put on harder waxes would that be useless? Is putting skins over softer waxes an issue?

[greatgt]

If needed I put a dab here and there on the Fish scale bottom. Generally, I want the glider part of the ski with no wax because they need help gliding anyway. Also, faster skis make quicker turns if needed. TM

[Musk Ox]

My main concern is how kick wax will interact with skins. I saw a thread on her where someone mentioned that harder kick waxes (cold) are fine and softer kick waxes (warm) cause issues. If I'm in warmer conditions and put on harder waxes would that be useless? Is putting skins over softer waxes an issue?

The consensus is Swix Blue Extra and harder is fine.

I think putting Blue Extra forward of the scales would be worth trying? I wouldn't expect it to make much difference grip-wise in spring conditions, but I know that people do say that Polar in less-than-Polar weather helps with the grip. So it can't hurt to try.

[lilcliffy]

Hey JBT!
I too have a set of Nansen WL-
I have been using it as a "warm" weather day-touring ski.
I am grip-waxing the entire base with Swx Polar- with Swix Blue from the heel forwards.
In my local "warm" weather touring, nights are cold, and conditions freeze hard- though there is typically some fresh snowfall overnight- then snow temperatures rise above freezing in the afternoon.
The Swix Blue + scales grip and glide beautifully early in the day on colder snow-
the scales really "kick" in once temperatures reach freezing and above.
Mohair kicker skins if it gets really warm and wet (like this afternoon) and the scales are not quite adequate.
For me, the combination of hard grip wax, scales, and kicker skin are the perfect combination for my warm weather touring (and the Nansen WL glides, climbs and turns beautifully- better than my Fischer 78...)
........
Hard grip-kick wax (e.g. Swix Blue and colder) does not affect skin adhesive.
I do occasionally end up with some Swix Violet or Red on my skin adhesive- it is easy enough to remove with paper towel and an iron.
......
Love the Nansen WL!

[JB TELE]

Maybe I should do this to make the fish scale section a bit longer?


I have full length skins and plan on getting kicker skins. In the hilly terrain I ski in, with these skis I pretty much have to use skins all the time except for downhill. In comparison I get through a lot of terrain on my s-bound 98 fish scales before I feel the need to put on skins. If I could find a way to increase the grip a bit so I don't have to use kicker skins as much, that would mean more efficient travel.

I bought the skis because I wanted some skinny XCD skis for spring skiing and most of the stuff on the market has very little sidecut. Sized them down for maneuverability and turning. They aren't really being used as kick and glide skis on flat trails. More for consistently hilly terrain.e

I'll give the blue wax a try.
I wonder if blue waxing the entire base of my s-bound 98s or my voile hypervector bcs would give them better grip in fresh powder? I find that fish scales really struggle in dry fresh powder and I'm usually leaving the parking lot with full length full coverage skins on.

[CwmRaider]

Maybe I should do this to make the fish scale section a bit longer?
.

Don't do that, the result will be far from optimal and your skis will lose all sale value. I had the same waxless skis and was unhappy with grip, they "forced" me into grip waxing in front of the kick zone. This worked but moreover made me realise that the cold snow = grip wax, warm snow = kicker skin solution is simple and gives good performance so I ditched the Nansen WL to get waxable skis instead. The Nansens are otherwise very good skis!

Get some 45mm mohair kicker skins. Not nylon. You will barely notice them when not on prepared xc tracks or during extended downhill and the offer better grip than Fischer crown pattern. They do glide surprisingly well.

[TallGrass]

Better glide, worse grip.

Have you tried glide waxing first? Worst, it's a base for kick wax. Best, it sheds snow letting the scales grab more fully.

[Musk Ox]

Better glide, worse grip.

Have you tried glide waxing first? Worst, it's a base for kick wax. Best, it sheds snow letting the scales grab more fully.

Glide wax is a pretty terrible base for kick wax, unless I've misunderstood something? (Polar aside!)

[JB TELE]

I gave this a try today. I was on my s-bound 98s and we had some fresh powder overnight and day temps were below freezing. I've always struggled in powder with fishscales, but the kick wax made me grip better than I ever have. Some hills that I've always needed at least kicker skins, or ideally full length skills, were easy to climb with the blue kick wax. A friend skiing with me was borrowing my voile hypervector bcs without any kick wax and she was struggling on the same hills despite those skis being much wider (more surface area to grip).

So for colder snow, I'm going to continue using this for the very hilly terrain I'm usually in. For warmer snow it won't work because I often need full length skins to ascend a bigger slope, and apparently those warmer kick waxes don't interact well with skins. It may work well for spring morning crust, but I'll have to try and see.

So overall, huge success! Not great if you are kicking and gliding on flats, but kick waxing tip to tail on fish scale or waxable kick zone skis makes total sense if you are in colder snow temps and terrain where you need to skins while touring most of the time. Much better glide than skins, overall less energy expenditure.

[mikesee]

Maybe I should do this to make the fish scale section a bit longer?


I have full length skins and plan on getting kicker skins. In the hilly terrain I ski in, with these skis I pretty much have to use skins all the time except for downhill. In comparison I get through a lot of terrain on my s-bound 98 fish scales before I feel the need to put on skins. If I could find a way to increase the grip a bit so I don't have to use kicker skins as much, that would mean more efficient travel.

I bought the skis because I wanted some skinny XCD skis for spring skiing and most of the stuff on the market has very little sidecut. Sized them down for maneuverability and turning. They aren't really being used as kick and glide skis on flat trails. More for consistently hilly terrain.e

I'll give the blue wax a try.
I wonder if blue waxing the entire base of my s-bound 98s or my voile hypervector bcs would give them better grip in fresh powder? I find that fish scales really struggle in dry fresh powder and I'm usually leaving the parking lot with full length full coverage skins on.

I sacrificed an old beater pair of rock skis to this experiment. If I didn't have a set of Kom's and V6 BC's to compare them to, I might not have been as frustrated as I was with the result. Sort of like the worst of both worlds: not very good grip when climbing, but terrible glide when descending. Didn't really matter what the conditions were. I experimented with them for a month+ before pulling the bindings and leaving them at the local thrift store.