Asnes skins question, best width

[Ira]

Hi everyone,
I have a question about the best width for Asnes all-mohair X-skins for the Asnes Ingstad WL for the following conditions:

Low-slope forest service roads, where, on good-snow-days, I don't need any skins at all (in fact, I've never used skins in my life). I'd be using the skins on icy days only, for Asnes Ingstad WL, and only if I could use them effectively for both ascent and descent (because in general I find if I struggle on ascent, I always struggle on descent -- in fact there are some times that up is easier than down -- without skins).

I realize that the 58 mm would be recommended for steep conditions for Ingstad, but which is better for non-steep, low-slope icy conditions, for smoothly slowing down descent (with a side benefit of making ascent easier).

Would it be a smoother experience if the majority of the waist width is covered by skin (58mm of 64mm), or would it be smoother if only 45 mm of it is?

I'm decided on mohair (vs mix) because having a smooth glide is important even if I'm using skins to slightly slow down on icy days.

Thanks!

[jyw5]

Hi everyone,
I have a question about the best width for Asnes all-mohair X-skins for the Asnes Ingstad WL for the following conditions:

Low-slope forest service roads, where, on good-snow-days, I don't need any skins at all (in fact, I've never used skins in my life). I'd be using the skins on icy days only, for Asnes Ingstad WL, and only if I could use them effectively for both ascent and descent (because in general I find if I struggle on ascent, I always struggle on descent -- in fact there are some times that up is easier than down -- without skins).

I realize that the 58 mm would be recommended for steep conditions for Ingstad, but which is better for non-steep, low-slope icy conditions, for smoothly slowing down descent (with a side benefit of making ascent easier).

Would it be a smoother experience if the majority of the waist width is covered by skin (58mm of 64mm), or would it be smoother if only 45 mm of it is?

I'm decided on mohair (vs mix) because having a smooth glide is important even if I'm using skins to slightly slow down on icy days.

Thanks!

choosing width, length, and type (mohair or mixed or nylon) depends on several things:

1) how hard is the snow? is it really solid boilerplate ice?
2) how adept are you at turning, and do you need to turn? how much slower do you want to go?
3) is this refrozen snow and temps are hovering at 32F and wet? or is this cold winter dry ice from sun/wind (like 0-10F)?
4) what do you consider "low slope?" ... everyone has a different definition for this.

for the most extreme... dry/cold and old boilerplate crust, I recommend 50mm+ full mixed skins with tip attachment running the length from tip down to 20-30cm from the tail. Your rocker tip with shortened effective length works against you in these conditions, so as much grippy surface area is needed to keep from slipping and sliding out. but not wall to wall...that may interfere with glide. I'm talking about harsh cold hard windcrust with sustrugi and no new snow accumulation (where your skis arent making tracks).

for softer crust (like spring crust), mohair (treated with skin wax) is great. get the 40mm pomoca race X-skins. I zoom on those on my Skog 185cm. these also work great for light dusting of cold dry snow over a frozen base. I have also tried them on my FT62 and blaze up and down hills (don't use often because FT62 is mainly for steep descents). this is sometimes better than your scales. grip and glide is super.

for wetter late spring refrozen snow, a mixed or nylon at 45mm Xskin is good for better grip and less water absorption. also, they are more durable than mohair because the gritty rough texture of the snow is abrasive and can rip the mohair. I also hot wax them which improves both grip and glide.


40mm pomoca mohair is probably what you need for a smooth tour on these low angle ups and downs provided the snow isnt wet/warm...be aware that mohair is less durable and sucks up water (hot wax them to prevent some of this). 45mm+ mohair mixed however can drag coming down sometimes...and shorter and/or thinner skins can be just useless...neither grippy nor glidy. nylon just grips with inconsistent or no glide (I use nylon for steep ascents and as a backup when fullskins adhesion fail).

I never have skins covering skis wall to wall unless I'm doing big mountain, steep ascents. for what you are doing, go 50mm or less. (for comparison, I will sometimes use a thin 35mm mixed skin on my 79mm waisted S112 for just a bit more grip but still have great glide).


I **personally** bring 2 for truly icy but low angle conditions: 45mm mixed xskin and a full length 50mm mixed skin.

for more benign conditions, I use 40mm pomoca race only.

hope this explanation helps. there isn't a ubiquitous skin that works in all conditions. there are always tradeoffs. just like your scales arent great in certain conditions and totally useless in some instances.

[Krakus]

@jyw5, do you have any recommendation as for skin hot waxing?

[freedom glider]

wow what an extensive breakdown by jyw5. thanks. and would this make sense to turn into a wiki?

[jyw5]

@jyw5, do you have any recommendation as for skin hot waxing?

use Colltex skin wax, medium iron drip on the skin. turn off your iron so its not HOT but just warm and wax skin from tip to tail.

[jyw5]

wow what an extensive breakdown by jyw5. thanks. and would this make sense to turn into a wiki?

thanks. haha. no wiki. these are trade secrets derived from thousands of hours and over million vertical ft of skiing. haha. I guess now everyone knows.

but seriously alot is trial and error. after a while, you will "feel" the snow. and know exactly what to do and what to use.

Cheers.

[Ira]

Thanks @@jyw5 !

Great information! I have never used attachable skins before, but I don't imagine I'll use the in very wet or slushy conditions (because in that case I'd just use the scales).

The "low-slope" is low enough slope that usually, I'm kicking and gliding on the way down, without turns, without skins, when the snow is on the fresh side, and low slope enough that I've never wanted skins for the way up. Low slope enough that after many back-and-forths in my tracks, when they're smooth, I can stand in them and double-pole and glide down with some kicks on the flatter section (which results in a slow gentle glide except for on icy days -- and that's when I'd want skins).

I'm only looking to shave a little speed, not a lot. Basically I'm looking for the skins to increase the friction on icy days only (temperatures in the high 20's or low 30's, after multiple freeze-thaw cycles), to make Asnes Ingstad WL be as grippy or slightly more grippy (in a smooth way) as Fischer fishscale skis, and to keep the smoothness of the glide but not gather too much speed (not doing much turning, just turning with the curves of the forest service road). This would be on days my skis don't really make tracks and my own tracks from the previous day are icy/fast, but going outside of my tracks doesn't do much good because the snow is too hard/icy from melting and thawing. But in those conditions it's not wet (if it's wet, I don't need skins because the makes the snow softer).

I wanted to stick to mohair because of the smoothness of the glide of mohair and the slopes are so low (like the attached picture). So it sounds like I should go with 45mm over the 58? I realize "never used skins" is innacurate, because I remember I did use my partner's Hoks once, which have mixed mohair/nylon skins integrated into the ski, and found that they actually stopped too abruptly on icy sections under trees (where the trees had dropped melted snow that refroze), so hoping not to recreate that experience.

Thanks so much!

[Ira]

Another related question: I hadn't planned to wax my skins because I usually only apply wax (paste-wax) to my skis on new-snow days (and I wouldn't use skins on sticky-snow or wet-snow or new-snow days).

If I'm using skins on icy days (when my skis don't make tracks), then is waxing still recommended for all-mohair skins?

If so, would a wax like this one be ok? https://www.rei.com/product/190708/moun ... n-wax-2-oz (I can't do hot-waxing myself and also allergic to chemicals). Would this increase the speed of the skins? (I don't want more speed on skin-days). Or would it keep the same amount of speed, but smoother and more protected? Would it protect skins from abrasive icy snow?

Thanks!

[jyw5]

Another related question: I hadn't planned to wax my skins because I usually only apply wax (paste-wax) to my skis on new-snow days (and I wouldn't use skins on sticky-snow or wet-snow or new-snow days).

If I'm using skins on icy days (when my skis don't make tracks), then is waxing still recommended for all-mohair skins?

If so, would a wax like this one be ok? https://www.rei.com/product/190708/moun ... n-wax-2-oz (I can't do hot-waxing myself and also allergic to chemicals). Would this increase the speed of the skins? (I don't want more speed on skin-days). Or would it keep the same amount of speed, but smoother and more protected? Would it protect skins from abrasive icy snow?

Thanks!

go pomoca mohair 40mm race. 45mm will have drag especially on flat terrain. You may need to rub and cork on polar grip wax tip and tail of the skis to get more glide in some conditions from 15F-32F.

i have never used that wax you mentioned. i dont personally recommend rubbing on wax on the skin simply because the wax is too hard and can damage mohair over time. I dont want wear and tear on my mohair from anything other than from skiing. so my recommendation is its either hot wax or not at all.

if someone can hot wax for you, then great. use colltex skin wax. it does improve grip and glide. but at low angles, it may not be noticeable. I'm not sure it affects the durability all that much. wax does repel water which is good when temps warm up.

also, you can wear a mask and really you shouldn't be producing vapors when waxing on skin wax... you are running it way too hot if thats the case. it should just barely melt the wax on the skin...then turn off the iron and wait for it to cool slightly and run it quickly on the skin so you don't burn the mohair (just like u wouldnt use a hot iron to iron a synthetic shirt). applying excessive heat to the mohair is a bad idea...temp control is important.

mohair allows for smooth consistent glide with adequate grip especially on cold dry snow.

When very icy, you can also gain more grip by using swix blue wax for 20-30F on your skis. rub on and cork in. put some 10cm ahead of the skin attachment and 10cm behind the boot/binding/back end of the skin on your skis. But overall, the pomoca 40mm works great.

45mm will drag. dont buy those. You will be walking and shuffling around on flattish terrain and be disappointed. And on truly hard icy, windcrusted snow, where you have no grip with the scales, neither of these xskins are adequate. You would need full length 50mm or wide nylon Xskins as I previously mentioned. (I also use full length 60mm mohair for steep ascents and sometimes leave on when its very steep and skiing fast).

45mm is just not useful for what you are doing. 45mm is great for steeper climbs and removing at the top and skiing down.

to answer your question. 45mm or 58mm. NEITHER.

get 40mm pomoca race.

[Krakus]

@jyw5
As I understand, you don't recommend Asnes 45 mm regular mohair Xskins? What brand of skins do you use as a full-lenght? I noticed that you don't use any tail attachment for full-lenght skins, don't they come off?
What about glueing skins over grip wax - what I read is that waxes like Extra Blue and harder don't contaminate glue. Does it apply to ironed wax only or only corked too?