Dogs + Metal Edges

This is the World Famous TelemarkTalk / TelemarkTips Forum, by far the most dynamic telemark and backcountry skiing discussion board on the world wide web. We have fun here, come on in and be a part of it.
Post Reply
User avatar
Harms Way
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:36 pm
Location: Steamboat, Colorado

Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by Harms Way » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:20 am

After months of lurking, I registered and this is my first post. Doing a lot more XCD skiing this season. Between a poor snow year and COVID, less motivated to ski at my local resort (Steamboat, Colorado). Been spending a lot of time on the trails on Rabbit Ears Pass. Most is rolling terrain, but there are some steeper/narrow trail sections that require survival snowplowing along with some open low angle descents to make a few turns.

When skiing solo, have been leaving our young Labrador at home for fear of cutting her paws/legs. Both of our previous Labs got sliced by ski edges, and trying to avoid that with the new dog. But she has tons of energy and would love to go skiing with me.

Was thinking of aggressively dulling the tip and tail edges, further back than on a traditional alpine ski tune. But not sure if that will do the trick. Anyone out there have experience in this area? Are paw slices usually limited to ski tips and tails, or do they frequently happen underfoot as well? I don't want to round off decent part of my edges if it won't solve the problem. I know Asnes makes edgeless BC skis for skiing with dogs, but no chance for that in the budget.

For reference, I am doing my skiing on the following setups, both are 10-20 years old:
- Fischer E99 Crown + NNN bindings (track not BC) + Alpina combi boots. Fun and fast, but not much control on the downs with this boot/binding, so can't easily stop if dog gets too close.
- Fischer Outtabounds Crown + 75mm cable bindings + Scarpa T3
Toying with idea of getting some Alpina Alaska 75mm and switching E99 to 3 pin binding for more control - as could also use the Alaskas with the Outtabounds. But that is another topic..............

I appreciate any insight, as assume there are a number of you out there skiing with dogs.

Thanks!

User avatar
fisheater
Posts: 2510
Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:06 pm
Location: Oakland County, MI
Ski style: All my own, and age doesn't help
Favorite Skis: Gamme 54, Falketind 62, I hope to add a third soon
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska, Alico Ski March
Occupation: Construction Manager

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by fisheater » Thu Jan 21, 2021 9:40 am

I believe it depends upon the dog and the skier. My Viszla is a gentle girl. I blew by her on a couple downhills. That wasn’t her thing. So she makes it a point to either tag along behind me, or have room between us if she is in front.
I was giving an edge less ski serious consideration before the season. If I thought it was imperative to keep my dog safe I would do it.
I theorized that the edgeless version of Gamme, could be easier to rotate underfoot. However really thinking about how my skis perform, when they’re on my feet and sliding on snow has me of the opinion that I am better off with steel edges. My trails get hard packed, and at times see heavy use. I like to ski as fast as possible. Some of the downhills twist around blind corners while continuing downhill. I’m safer with steel edges.



User avatar
bwm8142
Posts: 57
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2021 2:25 pm
Location: Alberta
Ski style: Trying not to fall down
Favorite Skis: Combat Nato

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by bwm8142 » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:00 am

I do ski with my bernese mountain dog most evenings after work. I am on a metal edged ski and have never had any issues with him getting injured. I have taken some time to teach him how far ahead/behind he can be when we are on skis to keep him a bit more safe. I think it's totally dependent on the dog and the skier. I really do think I need metal edges to navigate some of the icy skidoo tracks around my house so I have chosen to try and teach the dog to keep his distance. If it was a major safety issue with my dog I would probably get another pair of skis without the steel edge for when I wanted him to burn off some energy.



User avatar
Landscraper
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:09 pm
Location: VT

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by Landscraper » Thu Jan 21, 2021 10:42 am

Completely agree with everyone here, it's all about you and your dog.

I'll relate my own experience on why I don't ski with my doggo.

My dog did not respond to training of any kind in this regard, he has proven himself to be a bad trail companion for skiing, primarily because he refuses to not herd me and crosses over the skis, runs up to me head on, and is generally a risk at slicing himself up. Alone on the trails he is a dream, but add the speed of skiing and he's a wreck.

He's also too precious to the family to risk an accident in the back country. I personally don't agree with taking dogs on back country trips of any kind, pains me to think about the reality and fall out of an accident, enough to just not attempt it.

I would favor the training prior to altering the skis, it can be pretty routine all things considered. Edges are safety features, after all.

Here's the background of what the dog already knew prior to getting them out in the snow to try to ski train

Recall - this one is essential obviously, can't stand when people bring dogs out with poor recall

"This Way" - immediate change in direction back towards you, lighter than a full recall, mark the dog when they change direction back to you instead of waiting for them to reach you

"Back" or "Away" - an immediate backtrack or moonwalk, mark the dog as soon as they step back

"whoa" - a full stop that needs a marked release. dog needs to be able to hold this position as you increase distance away from the dog, we gradually built this one up to be about 10'

When he had mastered these in high distraction situations he was introduced to skiing.
The only thing that changed between skiing and walking was the distance that we initiated commands. We even introduced a "find X" command that had him ping ponging between my partner and I. Alas, something about the skis just triggered poor behavior ... the sound? the speed? dunno. didn't work for us with this dog.

My partner is going to try cani-cross and may give him a shot at skijoring with edgeless skis because of it.

Just my two cents. Some dogs just don't make the cut, love them as we do.



User avatar
lilcliffy
Posts: 4112
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm
Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: backcountry Nordic ski touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad, Combat Nato, Amundsen, Rabb 68; Altai Kom
Favorite boots: Alpina Alaska BC; Lundhags Expedition; Alfa Skaget XP; Scarpa T4
Occupation: Forestry Professional
Instructor at Maritime College of Forest Technology
Husband, father, farmer and logger

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by lilcliffy » Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:05 pm

I have been skiing with metal edges- daily- with my border collies for decades. I have never cut any of their legs/feet.

Skijoring is another matter.

My wife has recently been thinking about skijoring- I would definitely want skis without metal edges.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.



User avatar
SnickBreck
Posts: 34
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:37 am
Location: Breckenridge CO
Ski style: Nordic BC, Touring, Skate
Favorite Skis: Hagan U65, Fischer RCS Skate, Black Pearl 88, Asnes Liv wax, Asnes Cecile wax
Favorite boots: Rossignol FW6, Scarpa Alien 1.0, Scarpa F1, Fischer Carbonlite
Occupation: Wanderer

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by SnickBreck » Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:58 pm

I agree with the other posters; totally depends on the dog. I ski almost every day with my hyper male Vizsla. He knows to either go ahead of me and speed up, go behind and stay back, or race me well off to the side. He's 6 now and has never been cut by my skis.

I've found you have to keep an eye on what other, less thoughtful, skiers might do around your pup more than yourself. Another skier with an ill behaved dog skied right in front of my pup w/metal edge skis to grab hers. Nice vet bill for stitches and a week indoors for a cut near his front paw. For this reason I tend not to go to crowded areas unless it's very early season.



User avatar
athabascae
Posts: 234
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:17 pm
Location: Whitehorse, Yukon
Favorite Skis: Asnes MR48; Asnes Ingstad
Favorite boots: Alpina Traverse BC; Alpina Alaska BC

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by athabascae » Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:12 am

My entire skiing life has been with dogs. Knock on wood cutting them with metal edges has never been an issue. I have always had a dog that stays in front or behind me. I taught my current dog years ago "back" and she knows the drill. Taught her this hiking and mountain biking first. Good thing because I ski a lot on my own and would find it quite lonely without my dog as trail companion.

I do like the idea of 3/4 metal edged skis however, just to reduce risk.

As for the OP question about aggressive detuning of tips and tail edges: I do this and prefer it regardless of dog safety issues. I am far more into touring than turning and dislike sharp edges except under foot for my climate and the terrain I ski. Hills are rarely icey, but they can be narrow and steep requiring "survival skiing". I think detuning the tips and tails helps on hilly forest trails with no room for turns. I use a gummy stone on the tips and tails to clean and detune edges. Occasionally a #5 file when needed.



User avatar
Harms Way
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2021 7:36 pm
Location: Steamboat, Colorado

Re: Dogs + Metal Edges

Post by Harms Way » Tue Jan 26, 2021 1:03 am

Thanks for all the input. This weekend I took my dog out on a 7 mile rolling ski tour and she did great. I worked on training her with some commands, and will continue to do this as we ski more. She is a young lab with lots of energy, so usually stays 20 feet ahead of me. Will stick to less crowded trails without big descents to start, as those seem to be the most likely times for ski edge + paw problems.



Post Reply