Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

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lowangle al
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by lowangle al » Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:06 pm

12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Ok, so try a harder wax right over a softer wax if snow is sticking? Is that the trick?

I've been trying to learn the craft since I got a waxable e99, and it has been terrible. One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin. Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't get it
Have you tried Swix blue extra? It's a little softer than regular blue and works at a little warmer temps. It is the wax I use the most and pretty much replaced regular blue for me. I also liked using swix red silver better than the regular red.

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by FourthCoast » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:20 pm

I was also out in more or less the same conditions as fish. Blue was working well on Saturday but then no grip on Sunday.

I tried red/silver for the first time on Sunday. I found it much easier to apply than red wax. It was also easier to remove. I do not think I will try red again any time soon. It gave me enough kick to move around.

I had some clumping after putting the red silver on. I will need to try fish's new/old technique next time.

Edit: I just checked. The blue I have is actually blue extra.
Last edited by FourthCoast on Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by fisheater » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:31 pm

lowangle al wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:06 pm
12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Ok, so try a harder wax right over a softer wax if snow is sticking? Is that the trick?
I've been trying to learn the craft since I got a waxable e99, and it has been terrible. One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin. Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't

Have you tried Swix blue extra? It's a little softer than regular blue and works at a little warmer temps. It is the wax I use the most and pretty much replaced regular blue for me. I also liked using swix red silver better than the regular red.
Al, the only blue I have ever used is Blue Extra. I guess dumb luck is better than no luck at all.

12 Gauge, here is my paraphrase of Nordic Dave’s recommendation. Sometimes the snow crystals are deformed and wax at the proper temp is too hard to grip those crystals. A soft wax will grip, but it sticks to the snow. By applying a thin layer of a harder wax over the softer wax, the deformed crystals can find grip as the harder wax deflects because of the softer wax below. However, you get the glide and the non-stick of the hard wax.
Here is the link to Nordic Dave “Pinnah” Page. I have it bookmarked.
http://web.archive.org/web/201510021509 ... rtbag.html

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by 12gaugesage » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:44 pm

lilcliffy wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:05 pm
12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin.
Did you try another layer of blue first? Did you try extending the kick wax forwards?
No, that day I didnt, it was warmer than the recommended temp range, and wet. Didn't have a warmer temp wax, (yet) figured it was just wrong wax and the skins actually worked well, but I will try that next time
Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't get it

Wildly fluctuating temperatures are difficult to learn to kick wax for- no question.
When you say the "snow stuck bad"- do you mean that there was snow on the kick zone- or do you mean that there were big gobs of snow stuck to the base- preventing any glide? What I mean is- what was the glide like?
Clumping in the kick zone, on the warmer day (32f, red special) I stopped a few times to scrape snow and tried corking, then tried scraping the red wax off and corked again, still no luck. Then on the same base on a cold morning, same thing happened.
The snow will release somewhat when I slide, but if I stomp up a hill or stop at all they start to clump and it just snowballs till I scrape.

Part of it might be not letting the wax acclimate? But my skis are in my car all night anyway, and then even after skiing and scraping for a while they still won't stop.

Frustrating, but I will say, the one time it worked right, it was magic, good grip no drag.


The only other time I messed with wax was years ago, someone gave me some old waxable tele skis (technically my first skis) but it was a cold winter, only needed hard wax. The only problem I had then was the cold abrasive snow scraping my wax off prematurely, but it worked.
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by 12gaugesage » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:49 pm

lowangle al wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:06 pm
12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Ok, so try a harder wax right over a softer wax if snow is sticking? Is that the trick?

I've been trying to learn the craft since I got a waxable e99, and it has been terrible. One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin. Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't get it
Have you tried Swix blue extra? It's a little softer than regular blue and works at a little warmer temps. It is the wax I use the most and pretty much replaced regular blue for me. I also liked using swix red silver better than the regular red.
God damnit, I gotta buy more wax. No haven't tried blue extra or red silver....
Swix green, blue and red special are all I have so far.
I'll keep buying and trying
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by 12gaugesage » Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:00 pm

fisheater wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:31 pm
lowangle al wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:06 pm
12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
Ok, so try a harder wax right over a softer wax if snow is sticking? Is that the trick?
I've been trying to learn the craft since I got a waxable e99, and it has been terrible. One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin. Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't

Have you tried Swix blue extra? It's a little softer than regular blue and works at a little warmer temps. It is the wax I use the most and pretty much replaced regular blue for me. I also liked using swix red silver better than the regular red.
Al, the only blue I have ever used is Blue Extra. I guess dumb luck is better than no luck at all.

12 Gauge, here is my paraphrase of Nordic Dave’s recommendation. Sometimes the snow crystals are deformed and wax at the proper temp is too hard to grip those crystals. A soft wax will grip, but it sticks to the snow. By applying a thin layer of a harder wax over the softer wax, the deformed crystals can find grip as the harder wax deflects because of the softer wax below. However, you get the glide and the non-stick of the hard wax.
Here is the link to Nordic Dave “Pinnah” Page. I have it bookmarked.
http://web.archive.org/web/201510021509 ... rtbag.html
Thanks for the info and link, I guess it's time to study and test, I'd hoped it would be easier, but I have to grow up sometime and figure this out. I've been avoiding this aspect of Nordic snowcraft.

Damn those waxable e99s, I want to love them, wish they made a waxless ez skin version.
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by jyw5 » Wed Feb 12, 2020 12:01 am

Thanks for all your suggestions. Our temps are like the stock market...other than getting 5 pairs of skis, I am at a loss as to what to do...not too thrilled about having to wax/rewax every day. and temps can vary as much as 30 degrees in 1 day and also have variable highs and lows depending on elevation.

They should have that chart in candlestick to express the volatility.
Screenshot_20200211-185438-01.jpeg

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by Cannatonic » Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:30 pm

I love reading these wax stories, thanks, I love wax but after one particularly bad day with Swix red/silver I came home and violently threw the remaining tins into the trash can! It seems like when you get enough red on there for some traction your glide goes to zero. you must need a PhD in waxing to get that stuff to work.

Not surprised the 210 Gammes are working well - these skis are so much lighter in weight than the E99's of just 10 years ago, I feel blessed with today's gear.

I've been stuck the last 2 winters with a lot of sloppy, wet snow days (even skiing in the rain) and the Asnes mohair skins are a godsend in these conditions. Better than wax or scales. Don't get me started on klister and pine needles! I've got a pair of 30mm mohairs on some Asnes MT51's - the skin attachment points are farther up the ski than Gamme so no trimming of skins is required. I am blowing by friends with fishscales with this setup. For Gamme I cut a couple inches off 45mm's to make it end just behind the heel plate. Otherwise you can feel that little bit of skin catching when you ski downhill parts.

I'd suggest MT51's to anyone who likes cruising around w/ Gammes. It's just like a Gamme or E99 but slanted a little more toward XC mode. Very comfortable, ultralight ski. They're also priced low - can be had for $200. Buy an extra pair and leave a kicker skin on all winter....then you can leave the blue wax in place on your Gammes.
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by Woodserson » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:07 pm

Cannatonic wrote:
Wed Feb 12, 2020 2:30 pm
I love reading these wax stories, thanks, I love wax but after one particularly bad day with Swix red/silver I came home and violently threw the remaining tins into the trash can! It seems like when you get enough red on there for some traction your glide goes to zero. you must need a PhD in waxing to get that stuff to work.

Not surprised the 210 Gammes are working well - these skis are so much lighter in weight than the E99's of just 10 years ago, I feel blessed with today's gear.

I've been stuck the last 2 winters with a lot of sloppy, wet snow days (even skiing in the rain) and the Asnes mohair skins are a godsend in these conditions. Better than wax or scales. Don't get me started on klister and pine needles! I've got a pair of 30mm mohairs on some Asnes MT51's - the skin attachment points are farther up the ski than Gamme so no trimming of skins is required. I am blowing by friends with fishscales with this setup. For Gamme I cut a couple inches off 45mm's to make it end just behind the heel plate. Otherwise you can feel that little bit of skin catching when you ski downhill parts.

I'd suggest MT51's to anyone who likes cruising around w/ Gammes. It's just like a Gamme or E99 but slanted a little more toward XC mode. Very comfortable, ultralight ski. They're also priced low - can be had for $200. Buy an extra pair and leave a kicker skin on all winter....then you can leave the blue wax in place on your Gammes.
I second this post. Lots of great skiing with MT51s and 30mm mohairs.

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by fisheater » Wed Feb 12, 2020 9:29 pm

I have been able to make the wax work, sometimes no perfect, but work. Now here’s where I’m the village idiot. I actually have a pair of Asnes 45 mm mohair skins. I guess I should give them a try before I reach for Swix Violet.
Speaking of violet, I bought a tin because it was recommended by a certain Massachusetts area forum member. All I ask is what gives??? I gotta say, I’m holding of MT-51’s, they’re a lot more expensive than a tin of was!

Since my inflection doesn’t come across in written words, I’m just pulling somebody’s chain.

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