Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

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fisheater
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Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by fisheater » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:13 pm

There has been a little talk about waxing in difficult conditions both warm and really cold. I appreciate guys suffering with really cold temps, however most of my problems comes with temps around 32 F / 0 C. Yesterday I was out on 4” of fresh over some patchy melt ice and earth. I was forced to ski my local gravel trails at my local county park. Conditions were 4” of powder at 25 degrees, I was out early only a few tracks. My Gamme with blue were were so much faster than other skis I was told that Ray Charles pointed it out to Stevey Wonder. I skied about 10 miles and the crowds started to appear. I was stopped several times by skiers asking just what kind of miracle skis I was on. It really was just blue wax on a true double camber ski.
Now today was different, 32 F, well packed trails. I started with violet over yesterday’s blue, heel to tip. I had no grip. I went straight to red/silver in the wax pocket only. I had good grip, but glide was no better than the waxless guys. I decided to see if it would polish in a bit. As I headed into the hillier terrain, the snow was less packed and I started to stick. That’s when the word’s of Pinnah came to my ears. I scraped the now cold red/ silver thin, as it kind of gooey and doesn’t necessarily go on thin. I then crayoned on a thin layer of blue over the red/silver. Back to grip and glide! Violet had no grip, but blue over red/silver had grip and glide. I didn’t stop to talk much today, I got out later, but with grip and glide I did hear a couple, “are those racing skis.”
I should mention I am really a mediocre at best cross country skier, although I can through some tele turns for a little trail skiing cred.
The other thing that is becoming apparent as I spend more time on the Gamme 54. Is that a skinny 54 mm ski really is easier to control on uneven hard packed trails than my 68 mm USGI. I know this isn’t new information to most of you, however it sure has been noticeable to me. As suburbia has caught up and passed me in the 30+ years I have lived here, this unknown fact has really marginalized my USGI to really rock ski status. That’s after NNN-BC with Alaska’s and FT 62’s with my Ski March has left my 75 mm USGI in the rafters.
One other thing that has changed is the fact I really have started to use that cheesy synthetic cork more than my natural cork. I really am only using the natural cork to finish the wax. I guess that’s just another thing that worked out differently than I assumed.
I’m thankful for two days of skiing in a row. I don’t think that happened at all last season. I really like my 210 Gamme. It’s funny, I skied 205 alpine skinnies for years, but I was concerned about a 210 cm XC ski. It certainly doesn’t seem the least bit too long on my feet. Thanks to Gareth, Canna, and Woods. I never asked about length, I had read enough of your posts, out on my big boy pants, and ordered the 210 cm. After skiing them, I wonder why I ever had a doubt.
I would enjoy skiing with a bunch of the guys here, but I am fortunate you all on here to share your knowledge and love of Nordic skiing.
Very fortunate

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fisheater
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by fisheater » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:15 pm

There has been a little talk about waxing in difficult conditions both warm and really cold. I appreciate guys suffering with really cold temps, however most of my problems comes with temps around 32 F / 0 C. Yesterday I was out on 4” of fresh over some patchy melt ice and earth. I was forced to ski my local gravel trails at my local county park. Conditions were 4” of powder at 25 degrees, I was out early only a few tracks. My Gamme with blue were were so much faster than other skis I was told that Ray Charles pointed it out to Stevey Wonder. I skied about 10 miles and the crowds started to appear. I was stopped several times by skiers asking just what kind of miracle skis I was on. It really was just blue wax on a true double camber ski.
Now today was different, 32 F, well packed trails. I started with violet over yesterday’s blue, heel to tip. I had no grip. I went straight to red/silver in the wax pocket only. I had good grip, but glide was no better than the waxless guys. I decided to see if it would polish in a bit. As I headed into the hillier terrain, the snow was less packed and I started to stick. That’s when the word’s of Pinnah came to my ears. I scraped the now cold red/ silver thin, as it kind of gooey and doesn’t necessarily go on thin. I then crayoned on a thin layer of blue over the red/silver. Back to grip and glide! Violet had no grip, but blue over red/silver had grip and glide. I didn’t stop to talk much today, I got out later, but with grip and glide I did hear a couple, “are those racing skis.”
I should mention I am really a mediocre at best cross country skier, although I can throw some tele turns for a little trail skiing cred.
The other thing that is becoming apparent as I spend more time on the Gamme 54. Is that a skinny 54 mm ski really is easier to control on uneven hard packed trails than my 68 mm USGI. I know this isn’t new information to most of you, however it sure has been noticeable to me. As suburbia has caught up and passed me in the 30+ years I have lived here, and my trails now receive heavy use. This unknown fact has really marginalized my USGI to really rock ski status. That’s after NNN-BC with Alaska’s and FT 62’s with my Ski March has left my 75 mm USGI in the rafters.
One other thing that has changed is the fact I really have started to use that cheesy synthetic cork more than my natural cork. I really am only using the natural cork to finish the wax. I guess that’s just another thing that worked out differently than I assumed.
I’m thankful for two days of skiing in a row. I don’t think that happened at all last season. I really like my 210 Gamme. It’s funny, I skied 205 alpine skinnies for years, but I was concerned about a 210 cm XC ski. It certainly doesn’t seem the least bit too long on my feet. Thanks to Gareth, Canna, and Woods. I never asked about length, I had read enough of your posts, out on my big boy pants, and ordered the 210 cm. After skiing them, I wonder why I ever had a doubt.
I would enjoy skiing with a bunch of the guys here, but I am fortunate you all on here to share your knowledge and love of Nordic skiing.
Very fortunate
[/quote]

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12gaugesage
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by 12gaugesage » Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm

Ok, so try a harder wax right over a softer wax if snow is sticking? Is that the trick?

I've been trying to learn the craft since I got a waxable e99, and it has been terrible. One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin. Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't get it
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by jyw5 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:47 am

It was 32-38F overcast today at noon...wet 1ft new snow from yesterday, really soft creamy snow. Then it was colder by 3pm and the snow felt drier and there were light flurries. I have Polar on the entire base of my FT62 and blue wax in the kick zone. I got lazy and put 30mm mohair Xskins (hot waxed a few days ago). That worked ok. I felt really slow going up and down and flat along very soft snowmachine tracks and groomed trails...I could feel the drag from the mohair...maybe I will cut them shorter?

I will have to try your trick next time.

I think a narrower xc ski would have been better as the trail was relatively flat (900ft in 11 miles) and there are a few steeper climbs and decents. I thought about how the mtn race 48 would have been. looks like I need to buy another pair of skis...

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by lowangle al » Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:23 am

I'm glad you got a couple good days in Fish and happy to hear you got your wax to work. Waxing for lower latitude has been frustrating for me when temps warm up, especially when it's sunny. I've had good luck with the red/silver but it stopped working when temps got into the upper 30s. One of the things I liked about the red/silver was that when the snow refroze it still worked and I had decent glide and it stayed on longer than I thought it would.

I wanted to use my waxable skis this weekend but the extra blue didn't work, and with temps pushing 30 and on the rise I decided against it. I had a great time getting in over 15 miles and just shy of 3000 feet of turns in two days.

I've been very fortunate in Pa. this season getting in almost 30 days since Dec. 2nd especially considering how little snow we've had.

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 10, 2020 12:58 pm

Bob-
Thanks for sharing this.
I am so impressed with your commitment to kick wax for touring on difficult-to-wax-for snow!
You always inspire me to stay committed to kick wax during my spring skiing (as opposed to always going to scales or kicker skins)!
(Swix green kick wax heaven here this past weekend!)
I have been meaning to ask you- do you ever play with klister?
.......................
Great to hear that you are enjoying your Gammes!
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:05 pm

12gaugesage wrote:
Sun Feb 09, 2020 10:30 pm
One cold day swix blue was good, another warmer day, no grip, had to skin.
Did you try another layer of blue first? Did you try extending the kick wax forwards?
Then I got some swix red special and snow stuck bad, fresh snow inside of recommended temp one day, same thing the next colder day. I just don't get it
Wildly fluctuating temperatures are difficult to learn to kick wax for- no question.
When you say the "snow stuck bad"- do you mean that there was snow on the kick zone- or do you mean that there were big gobs of snow stuck to the base- preventing any glide? What I mean is- what was the glide like?
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by lilcliffy » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:07 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:47 am
I think a narrower xc ski would have been better as the trail was relatively flat (900ft in 11 miles) and there are a few steeper climbs and decents. I thought about how the mtn race 48 would have been. looks like I need to buy another pair of skis...
Gamme 54 man!
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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by bauerb » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:19 pm

what a throwback. I grew up nordic racing in VT, much of that time before skating, and during the transition and final distinction between classic and skating races. I remember plenty of days spent at races with a mastic propane torch applying klyster bases coats with hard wax overlays, trying to get kick/glide and durability dialed in. what a mess, clyster everywhere on frozen hands. I watch word cup nordic racing all the time on TV, and the same basic wax choices seem to exist. waxing is an art form, with some science. it is highly personally, and hard/fast rules really don't exist in my experience

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Re: Tried an Old Trick for the First Time and...

Post by oldschool47 » Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:41 pm

jyw5 wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 1:47 am

I think a narrower xc ski would have been better as the trail was relatively flat (900ft in 11 miles) and there are a few steeper climbs and decents. I thought about how the mtn race 48 would have been. looks like I need to buy another pair of skis...
Is the Asnes Mountain Race 48 the best BC ski ever made? Maybe so. I'm gonna be gettin' me a couple pair.

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