xcD ski nnnbc

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GuillaumeM
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xcD ski nnnbc

Post by GuillaumeM » Sun Jan 12, 2020 1:45 pm

Hi,

I am new to this forum so first a little presentation. I am a 27 years old French guy living in Oslo for 3 years now that came to XCD (or Fjellski as it is called here) last year and loved it. I started with Sbound 98/3pin cable/Svartisen 75mm. I love it in dry cold deep snow and spring snow, but it is not very attractive when going on hardpacked or icy conditions. I did not find the cables so useful for what I mostly do (moderate terrains), and the Svartisen has a very soft sole that weakens a bit my stability on downhill (despite the collar). In addition I bought a size too little so I get blisters on my heels after 10 km.

This year I got a very good deal on a Gamme 54/nnnbc manuel and bought a Crispi Stetind which is very similar to the Alaska. I went to nnnbc after looking at some comments on this site and a video showing that it is possible to get a similar rigidity downhill thanks to the rails on the binding and a rigid boot sole. In addition I have a AT gear that I use in steep conditions and true mountains.

So my question is which ski would you choose for xcD with nnnbc (magnum?) and Stetind in a quiver with the Gamme 54 (XCd)? The Gamme will be used for difficult conditions (ice, hardpacked snow, crust...) in gentle and moderate terrains, mainly for XC. The other one for deep cold snow (20-30 cm) and spring wet snow for downhill. At first glance I would go either for the FT62, either for the Åsnes Ingstad BC. Thought also about the e109 but with Åsnes skis the skins are compatibles for the whole quiver. Is it reasonable to go wider (FT68)? I might end up getting a BCX6 or Svartisen BC if I find the Stetind to soft.

Thanks for your ideas!
Last edited by GuillaumeM on Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lilcliffy
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Location: Stanley, New Brunswick, Canada
Ski style: Nordic backcountry touring
Favorite Skis: Asnes Ingstad BC; Asnes Gamme 54 BC; Asnes Falketind 62;Asnes Storetind Carbon
Favorite boots: Alfa Guard Advance BC; Alpina Alaska BC; Scarpa T4
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by lilcliffy » Sun Jan 12, 2020 2:13 pm

Hello and Welcome Guillaume!!

Thank you for joining us and sharing your Nordic ski touring experiences! (Please stay in touch and let us know how your own story evolves!)

My perspective-

The Ingstad BC is a distance-oriented ski that is finely-tuned for deep soft snow and hilly/steep terrain. It is my favorite XC ski of all time- though it is quite inefficient as a XC ski on dense, consolidated snow. The Fischer E-109 Xtralite can be every bit as much fun as the Ingstad BC, but it has a very soft tip that is completely unstable in deep soft snow.

If you are looking for something that is truly downhill-focused then the Asnes Falketind 62 is about the best xcD ski that I can think of. I have a FT62 and to me it seems this ski was made for people that want to downhill ski with XC boots!

The FT62 vs Rabb 68 seems to be the current $700CAN question...(I have no experience with the current Rabb 68).
All of the reports we are getting on this site suggest that the current Rabb is more purely downhill-focused than the FT62. Skiers are reporting that not only does the FT62 track better when XC skiing- but that the FT62 has a little more resistance underfoot. (I cannot testify to this as I can only compare the FT62 to my Ingstad BC/E-109 both of which have more camber and resistance underfoot than the rounder-flexing FT62).

There are couple of skiers on this site that have the Rabb 68 mounted to NNN-BC. (I would definitely recommend the wider mounting plate of the Magnum for any ski that one is going to really charge downhill- the wider plate puts much less stress on the binding mechanism and the toe bar.)

So Ingstad BC vs FT62-
- Ingstad BC more efficient XC ski
- FT62 better downhill ski

FT62 vs Rabb 68?
- we need others skiers need to speak to this one!
.........................
BTW- I am very keen to hear how you make out with your NNNBC boots!
I am currently using:
- Alpina Alaska BC
- Alfa Guard Advance BC
- Crispi Svartisen BC

I could not find a Stetind when I bought my Svartisen. Though I am OK with the moderately-stiff sole flex of the Svartisen BC- I am not sure that it will remain as stable and supportive as the Alaska after many seasons of hard skiing.

Gamme the Elder's review on the UTE Magazine site suggests that the Stetind has a stiffer and more supportive sole than the Svartisen BC and that the Svartisen BC has a more supportive sole than the Svartisen 75...

Thanks again for joining us!
Gareth
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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bgregoire
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by bgregoire » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:34 pm

Instead of buying a new pair of skis, why not remove the cables in your sbound98s and get a decent sized pair of leather 3 pins, the Varg skavl and crispi sydpolens or Antarcticas go for cheap on the used market in Norway even though they are amazing. If the nnnbc downhill syndrome has totally turned you the other way, you could also swap the bindings. The sbound98 is a decent downhill oriented xcd ski.


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fisheater
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by fisheater » Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:27 pm

If I understand bgregoire correctly he is saying you can good kick and glide with the cable removed from the 3-pin cable binding, and you would have much more power skiing downhill with the cable reattached skiing a traditional Norwegian welt soled boot. If I understand that statement I couldn’t agree more.
I have skied a S-bound 112 for a couple seasons downhill utilizing a Norwegian welted sole boot, 3 pin binding for k&g , cable when going downhill. It only takes a minute to clip on the cables, and I’m not tracking time. It was an acceptable downhill ski, however it did lack torsional rigidity. I purchased a FT-62, mounted 3-pin cable, and it does outperform the S-112 in both XC and downhill.
I do wish I lived in a place where 75 mm welted sole leather boots are readily available. Since they are not, I did purchase a pair of Alaska BC boots and mounted a couple pair skis NNN BC. I am very impressed with what I can do on NNN gear. For my more downhill skiing, I have no intention of switching to NNN now. I can’t say what I will think in a few years, but for now I’m okay skiing both types of gear.

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GuillaumeM
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by GuillaumeM » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:21 pm

Thank you all for the answers!

It looks like the FT62 would fit perfectly my program with nnnBC Magnum as I am always looking for some short downhill lines in hilly terrains when the conditions are goods :) If the conditions are bad, then I am just ending up XC and the Gamme 54 will be perfect for that.
BTW- I am very keen to hear how you make out with your NNNBC boots!
I am currently using:
- Alpina Alaska BC
- Alfa Guard Advance BC
- Crispi Svartisen BC

I could not find a Stetind when I bought my Svartisen. Though I am OK with the moderately-stiff sole flex of the Svartisen BC- I am not sure that it will remain as stable and supportive as the Alaska after many seasons of hard skiing.

Gamme the Elder's review on the UTE Magazine site suggests that the Stetind has a stiffer and more supportive sole than the Svartisen BC and that the Svartisen BC has a more supportive sole than the Svartisen 75...
I will definitely give you feedbacks about the boot. For the moment we have an incredibly warm January around Oslo and there is very little snow, but I am praying every day for it to fall so I do not give up. Do you like the Alaska better than the Svartisen? How does they feel for K&G, downhill and overall performances? I have heard a lot of good things about the last Alfa models, much stiffer than before (unfortunately not my foot fit). The Stetind has definitely more supportive sole than the Svartisen 75. I was surprised when I tried a Fischer BCX5 (new model) in a store, they are even a little more stiffer than the Stetind or Alaska and the ankle support is nice. Not as stiff as the BCX6 though. But I am concerned by the durability of Fischer boots so I ended up getting the Stetind.
Instead of buying a new pair of skis, why not remove the cables in your sbound98s and get a decent sized pair of leather 3 pins, the Varg skavl and crispi sydpolens or Antarcticas go for cheap on the used market in Norway even though they are amazing. If the nnnbc downhill syndrome has totally turned you the other way, you could also swap the bindings. The sbound98 is a decent downhill oriented xcd ski.
Yes it sounds very logical as I already have the Sbound that I really appreciate in powder and spring snow. I just thought I could have one pair of boots and two pairs of skis (Gamme 54 + FT62) to not have that much stuff to carry around. But I might just end up having both norms and skis, it is not a big deal. If I really like better nnnbc, is it possible to remove the 75mm and put an nnnbc without weakening the skis? Sydpolen have a very low ankle compare to Svartisen, is it not quite weak for going downhill with that kind of large skis? I am also wondering to what extent is the ankle support important when going downhill if the conditions are good? Is it more important when it is icy or wet snow? What is your feeling?

Unfortunately I cannot fit Alfa (which is very popular here) and Andrew because those shoes are for very large and strong feet. The best fit for me has been a Fischer BCX5 (new version, only tried in a shop), and I fit very well Crispi and Alpina as well.

Another question concerning my friends gear. I would like to replace her short waxable Eons by something that XC better but that would allow for nice teleturns in good conditions. The wax on the eons disappear in 15 minutes and there is no way to have short skins, so she is not really happy with them. She has Sydpolen and Voile 3pin cable, she is 167 cm for 59 kg. Would an Ingstad 180cm be nice? Or a Nansen?
Last edited by GuillaumeM on Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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bgregoire
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by bgregoire » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:30 pm

No problem drilling and mounting a ski several times. The sydpolen offers plenty of ankle support imo. My favourite all around boots. Don’t get enamoured by the exoskeleton concept. Nowadays, it’s usually found on softer ankles boots to give more rigidity. Most Norwegian welted boots have plenty of ankle support integrated in the leather walls. Well laced, you can do wonders.

I’m curious, since when are the Alfa soles stiffer? My Alfa quest advance 75mm are as soft as flip flops, they must be 4-5 years old.


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fisheater
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Re: xcD ski nnnbc

Post by fisheater » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:11 pm

My Alico Ski March has a lower ankle, with a stiff sole. The lower ankle allows for range of movement, the still sole offers tremendous power. For many XCD applications a softer sole with a similar leather upper would be an excellent combination.

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