Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

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Woodserson
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Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by Woodserson » Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:43 pm

fisheater wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:15 pm
Verskis it sounds like you found a ski that works in your conditions. That is a good thing. I hoping to see more photos of your forested hills. Seems like a great place to kick around, and make turns.
Agreed!

Also, I don't like klister, either.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:20 pm

I love klister actually...
BUT- I hate it in the backcountry because the only way to easily remove it is with toilet paper and an iron!
AND- despite personally dispelling the myth of grip wax and skins- klister and skin adhesive are NOT compatible!!!
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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lilcliffy
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by lilcliffy » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:36 pm

Verskis-
Great to hear from you!

Wonderful to hear that you finally bit on a waxless-scaled XCD ski and that you are enjoying the S-Bound 98!
What is the snow like that you are using it on? Warm I take it- but is it warm and soft or dense and consolidated?

What length 98 do you have?
How are you prepping/waxing the base?
Are you using the Easy-Skins with this ski?
.................................

I am with you- I feel very fortunate to be able to reach for either grip-waxed skis or scaled skis- depending on the snow conditions and the nature of the skiing.

Fischer's Offtrack Crown is excellent IMO- though there are some that prefer the less aggressive Fischer scales of older-gen S-Bounds...

I am currently happily using kicker skins in the following contexts:
1) VERY steep climbing on cold soft snow with downhill oriented skis that are grip-waxed (e.g. Asnes Storetind). 90% of the time grip wax is enough grip, but the kicker skin gives me those extra teeth if I want to climb something crazy steep. (In the past I would have needed a full-length skin for something this steep- but that was before I abandned glide wax in the backcountry...)

2) Double-cambered distance oriented touring when the snow is icy and refrozen and difficult to wax for. The double camber of the ski (e.g. E-99/Gamme 54) fully releases the kicker skin when striding forwards.

3) Pulling heavy weight.

Personally I want the option of kicker skins on all of my Nordic touring skis- regardless of whether it is a distance-oriented or downhill-oriented tour. Fischer needs to add the kicker skin attachment to the E-99 and the E-109 Crown...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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Verskis
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by Verskis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 8:47 am

I would love to be able to share more pictures with you, but unfortunately we have lost all the snow due to abnormally high temperatures. It was +5°C and raining this morning! In January!

Luckily, I was to ski around a bit with S Bounds on central Finland during the Christmas time.

lilcliffy wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:36 pm
Verskis-
Great to hear from you!

Wonderful to hear that you finally bit on a waxless-scaled XCD ski and that you are enjoying the S-Bound 98!
What is the snow like that you are using it on? Warm I take it- but is it warm and soft or dense and consolidated?

What length 98 do you have?
How are you prepping/waxing the base?
Are you using the Easy-Skins with this ski?
I have the 179cm length (it is actually shorter than that, roughly 176cm). I glide waxed the entire ski, with hot wax on the smooth sections and with liquid wax on the scales. I don't have the Easy skins.

I was able to ski in different conditions during Christmas:
First it was about 30cm deep very soft, warm and wet snow. The grip was fantastic, glide was alright, and I was surprised how easy the skis were turning in this kind of heavyweight snow.
Next day the snow stayed soft under the surface, but there was a slight crust on top of the snow. The skis handled this slight crust better than I would have thought, even if the turning was a bit more difficult now.
Then we got some colder temperatures and more snow. There was now a very hard base with approximately 5 to 10 cm of soft, cold, fluffy snow on top. These were my favorite conditions, even if the grip suffered a bit. There was still enough grip for my bunny hill skiing, but I felt that in these conditions a properly grip waxed ski would have been better. Nevertheless, the glide stayed surprisingly good, and turning on these conditions were almost effortless.
Then we got back home and lost all the snow.

Nevertheless, I was more than delighted about the performance of the S Bounds. I was afraid I would get a ski with bad grip, slow glide and inferior turning performance (compared to Åsnes Rabb), but it seems none of this was true!
They even seemed to track much better during kick and glide compared to the Rabb. Could this be attributed to the central groove on the S Bounds?

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Woodserson
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Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:25 am
Location: New Hampshire
Ski style: Bumps, trees, and steeps and long woodsy XC tours
Favorite Skis: DH: Voile V6, Altai KOMs, XC: Asnes Gamme 54, Classy Woodies
Favorite boots: T2Eco, T4, Alaska
Occupation: Retro Rager-grouch. Flailmeister. E99 Nerd

Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by Woodserson » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:51 pm

No, the Fischer's tend to have great grip. The Offtrack crown is really nice. It's on the E99s too and I love mine I am very happy for you! Truth be told I can't turn mine easily but I seem to be the exception. I think my Rabbs turn way way easier.

But seriously, pictures :D

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Cannatonic
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by Cannatonic » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:57 pm

don't give up on the kicker skins - try a narrower one, or you can also start with an Asnes kicker skin and start trimming the back end shorter until you get the glide you want.

I took a pair of Asnes nylon kicker skins with my Gamme ski and started cutting off a few cm a time until the glide felt just right - about the same as a fischscales. The skins can be made to perform just like scales if you want.
"All wisdom is to be gained through suffering"
-Will Lange (quoting Inuit chieftan)

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oldschool47
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by oldschool47 » Fri Jan 03, 2020 2:33 pm

1. Fishscales. I hope that a ski manufacturer decides to make fishscales that are adjustable from perpendicular to almost parallel to the snow surface.

2. Kicker skins. I like the built-in skins.

3. Wax. Excellent versatility but too much work.

I want to be the guy in this video.


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Verskis
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Ski style: XCD touring, yo-yoing small hills
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Re: Kicker skins suck, wax and fishscales rule!

Post by Verskis » Fri Jan 03, 2020 3:31 pm

Woodserson wrote:
Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:51 pm
But seriously, pictures :D
This will be a bit of a letdown for everybody waiting for pictures of nice woodsy hills, but since you asked...
My testing grounds for the S Bounds were some small bunny hills on farm fields.
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IMG-20191225-WA0005.jpeg
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20191227_140501.jpg

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