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Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:16 pm
by Woodserson
I've been thinking about this for a bit now.

Honestly, I think it's all added complication and a ploy for continued consumerism. My friends on their tech bindings are doing a lot more cursing than I am with my three pins, and I don't know how or why because I thought three pins were annoying with icing issues, etc. I know tech bindings are fine, they are the standard, I get this, but between the icing issues of the springs, the misalignment of the pins, boot-chewing, and god-know-what-else that I've seen, I would rather skip it and have/stick with an NNN-BC bar with a cable option. It could even be retrofitted to existing bindings with a little judicial hacking.

The boys over at Telemark Tech System would probably be game to make something up. https://wasatchski.com/tts.htm

All you need is a friendly cartridge for soft boots, like the HW blue cartridges, and a heel piece that is adapted to round non-notched heels like we find on the NNN-BC boots. Blamo! NNN-BC up front, party in the rear, no new system that would require re-configuration of entire quivers and no boots.

The NNN-BC binding works. It's solid, it's simple, it's incredibly powerful as long as you keep the BOF on the ski and engage the rails (don't ski up on the bumper). A cartridge/spring system for the heel would help with this.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:52 am
by Johnny
Woodserson wrote:
Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:16 pm
between the icing issues of the springs, the misalignment of the pins, boot-chewing, and god-know-what-else that I've seen, I would rather skip it and have/stick with an NNN-BC bar with a cable option.
Man, that sounds exactly like THREE pins! ;)
The NNN-BC binding works. It's solid, it's simple, it's incredibly powerful
Don't believe the hype: NNN-BC is the future of telemark. It has been the future of telemark since 1989.
as long as you keep the BOF on the ski and engage the rails (don't ski up on the bumper).
Exactly, that is one of the NNN-BC secrets nobody knows about. Once the rails are engaged, you have perfect lateral control at only 472g...
A cartridge/spring system for the heel would help with this.
No need for this, all you need is a stiff, high-quality boot. Need more stiffness or too lazy to work on your balance? Just add a carbon fiber insole inside your favorite boot... 8-)

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:54 pm
by Cannatonic
I still own and use my mid-90's K2/Shimano Clicker system - integrated step-in boot/binding system for snowboards. It included snowboard bindings, snowshoes and approach skis. It was a great idea, I"d love to see the same thing for skiing. Not sure how much a nordic skier needs snowshoes though. Maybe for some steep approaches.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Wed Dec 11, 2019 8:47 pm
by Teleg
Very excited about this! Looks like its dynafit tech bindinging inverted! One move the cheap tech inserts to the ski and have the "binding" in the boot. No need for the binding to clamp on the pins into the boot, the boot just push out the pins into the binding.

And the binding is just a simple lightweight bracket with holes for the pins. Imagine how much cheaper it would be to own many pairs of skis if the binding is in the bot and there is just some simple very lightweigth bracket on the ski.

I think this could even be lighter than the dynafit system, since one remove the need for the binding to open up and close for the boot to be inserted/secured. Having the pins just retract into the boot then push out into the binding to engage seems to be a more simpler way of making the same mechanical attachment.

Ofc they need to show how they gona secure the heel in this new system.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:55 am
by YakovL
bgregoire wrote:
Fri Nov 15, 2019 11:01 pm
Really? And now we have to carry snowshoes in our backpack to climb a mountain? I'm thinking good old skins are tons lighter!
I agree with you that the release is some strange. We really don't need snowshoes to climbing because there are skins.

There is the other problem wich ski bidings produsers don't understand as I see. Unfortunitely sometime now we have to carry alpine boots in addition to NNN BC because NNN BC sole is bad to climbing, to using with crampons and for walking on stones.

If the new system allow to build alpine/trekking boots with compatibility to BC skis it would be really good.

But all of this have no sense if the system will be cost like TLT.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:59 pm
by bgregoire
YakovL wrote:
Thu Dec 12, 2019 12:55 am
There is the other problem wich ski bidings produsers don't understand as I see. Unfortunitely sometime now we have to carry alpine boots in addition to NNN BC because NNN BC sole is bad to climbing, to using with crampons and for walking on stones.
Hello fellow russian skier!

I absolutely agree, the NNN BC boot is terrible for climbing and walking on stones. At least with 3-pins, I can easily get decent climbing crampons on them if required, which is not often in my case thank you.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Mon Dec 16, 2019 3:24 pm
by 12gaugesage
Wow, this is interesting, hope it makes it to market, wonder what's holding it back.
We're definitely about due for some advancement in xcbc binding tech imo. I would hope they figure some way to get the bumper out of the way for free pivot climbing.
Almost wonder if it would be easier to add a bumper to a tech binding?

Personally I would love to have a step in snowshoe. We have a lot of hikes around here that start as skiable, long, low angle slogs to get to a steep narrow trail to a summit, and sometimes you need both tools.
I've experimented a bit with trying to mount a bc or 3 pin to a pair but it's not as cut and dry as it seems. Snowshoes usually have a pivot built in, and limited clearance for a clunky binding or duck bill. I suspect this new binding will end up requiring a proprietary snowshoe to work right.
Saloman tried this a while back I believe.

Ultimately though it will only be as good as the boot. For that matter, might a stiffer nnnbc boot do the trick?
It'd be nice if it was affordable too.
That's half the appeal to free heel skiing to me anyway, cheap, versatile, simple, reliable.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:27 am
by turnfarmer
So SIA/OR and Ispo are here. Anyone see Rottefella's catalog?

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 3:49 pm
by spopepro
Bumping this back up just in case anyone has a lead. I know that "new light pin+NTN boot from Scarpa" did not make an appearance in any manner but hoping maybe something is moving in this area. Either of those two things would keep me from giving up and going AT for alpine ice excursions.

Re: The new Rottefella Back Country binding system

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2020 12:06 am
by Roelant
Hi! I just read some info including an interview with Rottefella's head of development Øyvar Svendsen about this binding concept picture on Fri Flyt.
https://www.friflyt.no/utstyr/skiutstyr ... -lager-her

The info is behind a paywall in Norwegian. I suppose it would be a breach of copyright to translate it directly and post it here (tell me if I am wrong), however I can sum it up, point by point.

1) this is a concept design, not a final design. As a system it will be cheaper than tech bindings. The name of the binding is not yet decided.
2) The boot sole will be more complicated than shown in this design. The drawing with the shoe has a wire through the sole, is one possible solution, and not the current design. Pins are in the shoes and can be forced in or out.
3) The binding itself has no movable parts.
4) Rottefella recognises that NNN-BC does not offer the stability they want, and this design is meant to be more stable. This binding is not intended to completely replace NNN-BC or 75mm, but is a robust product with good walking performance (with skis on), and "better" downhill performance. The aim is to have some flexing resistance in the binding, which can be removed (my comment - similar to bumpers?). This flex will be less than the 75mm.
5) Rottefella will be the supplier of the soles to boot makers.
6) the current target is to start producing in 2021, but the final decision for production has not yet been made!


That pretty much sums up the main info I distill out of this interview.
Cheers