"upgrade" to pins?

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t-$
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"upgrade" to pins?

Post by t-$ » Mon Jan 22, 2018 1:34 pm

hi kiddies,

let's say that my tech side is getting finicky with the rain and not being able to ski for 2 days :( . suppose i wanted to try pins, and of the skis i own i think that the asnes usgi is the best candidate for such horrid sin. what would you put on it and which leathers would you go with? (no, i'm not even considering plastic stormtrooper boots, sorry)

the usgi is heavy enough that i think it could warrant such a travesty and i could benefit from the added control for turns. my other skis are not up to them and i love the mags setup on those. but, i think i could expand the versatility of my current "quiver" by making this change. also, then i won't feel so left out ;)

so? voille 3pin cables? crispis? that was the direction my brain was heading.

this is purely hypothetical at this point! for the record i have not committed to going to the dark side yet, just speculating. but if somebody had some super cheap 3pc's and leathers (size 42!) that they wanted to get rid of, i might play along...

thanks for any input!

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connyro
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by connyro » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:20 pm

I use the 210 USGIs with nnnbc magnums and Alpina Alaska boots. For my uses, that setup is perfect for distance and speed in deep snow. I'm on that setup when I want to break trail and bushwhack in the woods, not necessarily looking for turns. That is my least 'turny' setup and I really like how it tours and covers a lot of ground. They'll turn, but they need space and decent conditions to make it fun. I don't think 3-pin bindings would help enough to make a difference. When looking for turns, I'm on a completely different setup. Also, flexing the sole of a leather boot (touring) in a 3-pin binding, IMO, has a lot more resistance than nnnbc. To me, the tradeoff is not worth it for the USGIs. YMMV. IF I was forced to run 3-pins on the USGIs, I would use the Voile Mountaineer and light leathers like the Asolo Snowfield-class boots.

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t-$
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by t-$ » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:20 pm

conny, what you said makes a lot of sense. i should just stick with what i have and not be fiddly.

.....

maybe play-it-again can get my fix for cheap and if i hate whatever i get then i'm not out much. nnnbc is really perfect for me and the terrain i ski everyday, but i dunno, i think it would be fun and good to try a 3pin setup just so i know what i'm missing and have a little more experience to back up my positions on gear choices.

and really, i don't have any real experience outside of the classic xc gear world (and this season with xcd). what if i love pins as much as i love burly system stuff? :shock:

but thanks for talking me back from the ledge conny...i need to listen to your sage advice!

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greatgt
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by greatgt » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm

Go for the pins....Not that the nnn is bad just from somebody who has been at Telemark for close to 4 decades they work better overall....Voile 3pc are kinda the gold standard for pins but we all like the Rottafella Super Telemark....Almost indestructible....11 0z......and boy do they get the job done....TM

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t-$
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by t-$ » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:32 pm

thanks for the suggestions. the violle and the rotte look like competing offerings for sure. something to consider....

one day maybe...one day....

or how bout these beuts that my dad took off a pair of old skis to use on his fishin' pulk? :lol:
image (63).jpg

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phoenix
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by phoenix » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:01 pm

I'm finding the Burnt Mtn. Spikes way better than either the Voile's or Rottefellas, as far as control and ease of use are concerned. Sole thickness will matter with these though; they work fine with my Alaska's but I would probably not try any thinner.

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Woodserson
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by Woodserson » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:46 pm

phoenix wrote:I'm finding the Burnt Mtn. Spikes way better than either the Voile's or Rottefellas, as far as control and ease of use are concerned.
I have always been interested in Burnt's offerings, would you care to elaborate?

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fisheater
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by fisheater » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:27 pm

I do not have any NNN boots. I ski my USGI skis with 3 pin cables and Alico Ski March boots. I do not use the cables when trail skiing, however my local trails do have a lot of short step up and downs, with banked turns at the bottom. The trails are great mt. bike trails, and fun to ski. Could I be faster on NNN? I don't know, maybe someday I will try. I also can ski them at the resort, when I ski with my son, he mostly skis blues. I probably will not be skiing them too much at the resort, I bought a different ski for that.
So, while I am probably much slower than I would be mounted NNN, I can most likely ski more descents NN. I am not suggesting you change, but you may be surprised how a stiff leather boot and a 3 pin can bend that ski. Who knows, I may be surprised how much faster it is NNN!

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t-$
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by t-$ » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:32 am

fish i thought you were one of the nnnbc promoters, but i guess i am mixing you up with lc, sorry! it's good to hear your perspective also, thanks. mostly i was just wondering because after skiing those eons and then jumping back on the usgi's, it let me wanting to be able to control the usgi more. i still love that ski for it's purpose (choppy trails, breaking trail, etc), but now comparing its "downhill" capabilities it would be nice to be able to have a bit more control over it.

if i decide to go that route it probly won't be till next season. after looking at all the leather 3 pin boot options out there, i really like the svartisens but can't justify 300 bux for a boot that i will only use with one pair of skis. so i'll wait till summer, look for some sales, and maybe be on pins for some of next winter. we'll see. i like the alicos too, but i wish they had a higher cuff, and the crispi's look much beefier. who knows, maybe i'll never do it! nnnbc rules the world! :twisted: :lol:

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lilcliffy
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Re: "upgrade" to pins?

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Jan 23, 2018 8:15 am

The USGI Combat ski- or at least our two pairs- are heavy, stiff, highly cambered and quite wide, with little sidecut.

I think that there is a limit to what anyone can do with a ski like this - even the most skilled downhill skiers, with high-cuffed, stiff Telemark boots.

I don't tend to use the same downhill techniques with my stiff double-cambered skis, as I do with my skis with a more downhill profile and flex (e.g. my feet feel weightless when I go from the USGI to the E109/E99).

Certainly, with more supportive Telemark boots, skiers (like Bob) can take the USGI to the slope and make linked downhill turns with them.

So- I guess- from my perspective- what is your intended use of this ski?

My intended use of the USGI is for a distance-oriented backcountry touring ski- therefore, being able to put a Telemark boot on this ski is not important to me.

However, if it was the only ski I had- I would put a 3-pin Telemark binding on it- so that I could use a Telemark boot- so that I could more effectively drive this ski on steep terrain.

NNNBC's primary design intent is for distance-oriented backcountry Nordic touring. Most of the NNNBC boots that have been made have a similar design/performance focus. (It has been some time since anyone has made a proper "Telemark" boot for the NNNBC binding) (e.g. Alpina 2500)).

I personally prefer NNNBC for distance-oriented touring- and, it is not just the binding that I prefer- it is also the XC striding performance of the boots and their soles that have been so perfectly designed for this type of skiing. The combination of my Alaskas and the NNNBC binding turn even in the low-cambered, soft, round flexing Madshus Annum into a decent XC ski (in deep snow). (Without trying it I never would have believed the difference between my 3-pin mounted/booted Guides and my NNNBC Annums- EXACTLY the same ski- but perform VERY differently).

If the ski is narrow enough and light enough I can easily link downhill turns with my NNNBC XC boots. But as the skis get over 70mm at the waist- at my skill level- my experience is that I need more boot power (unless the terrain is moderate and the snow is ideal). Currently the most supportive NNNBC boot I have tried is the Fischer BCX6- I would expect the Crispi Svartisen to be similar (BTW- UTE mag rated the NNNBCversions of these boots to be more supportive than the 3-pin...)- but, these boots are still primarily XC-focused boots.

At the XC-focused end of the spectrum, (meaning using XC-focused boots)I do not see any downhill advantage to using NN-3-pin.

From my perspective that primary advantage of "3-pin" is the fact that the 75mm-NN platform offers true downhill-focused "Telemark" support and performance. 3-pin Telemark bindings fit even my touring-for-turns context best, because I may still have to cover some significant distance to enjoy remote downhill dreams. BUT- for me the primary intended use still remains- I look to 75mm-NN for true downhill-focused support and performance.

If one wanted only one binding platform on all of their XC/XCD/Telemark skis- then 75mm-NN is clearly the only choice. But- I am quite thrilled with having both XC-focused and downhill-focused kits.

So- please forgive my long-winded musings- but what do you want to do with this ski?

If what underlies your interest in "3-pin" is actually developing Nordic downhill skiing skills (i.e. "Telemark" skiing)- then I would suggest following Connyro's example and be looking at not only boots/bindings but also downhill skis.

A heavy, stiff Telemark boot may take the USGI to steep slopes, but it won't turn it into a downhill ski...not in my experience/opinion.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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