To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

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MikeK

Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by MikeK » Sun Jan 08, 2017 9:33 pm

I think the extra length, lack of sidecut and little bit more camber might trump the weight... but we never tried.

I know for ME, with the same boots, the Epoch is much easier to ski dh. I actually think I may have started dh skiing on a ski of similar length and profile. It was heavier and had less camber, but he Epoch is a pretty easy turnin' ski IMO.

My comment about leathers on them is more in regards to technique. The Eon will just as easily not comply with your turning wishes should you try to force it. IMO it will comply much less because its turning radius is so much greater.

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STG
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by STG » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:39 pm

gitrinec:

Thinking about what gear I would use if I was going to ski in the WInds on the Elkhart/Seneca Lake trails. I would go light and skinny. I would probably use a traditional touring ski (59 or 60mm at the tip) with a partial metal edge and touring boots that have laces and are similar to hiking boots. I would bring mohair skins and other ice cleats, so I could adapt to all conditions. I don't think you will be doing many turns on that trail, so why go with a wider ski? They seem to be over-kill and will require a lot more work and energy. Light weight touring skis would be easy to carry in a pack when the conditions dictate hiking.

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lilcliffy
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by lilcliffy » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:55 pm

STG wrote:gitrinec:

Thinking about what gear I would use if I was going to ski in the WInds on the Elkhart/Seneca Lake trails. I would go light and skinny. I would probably use a traditional touring ski (59 or 60mm at the tip) with a partial metal edge and touring boots that have laces and are similar to hiking boots. I would bring mohair skins and other ice cleats, so I could adapt to all conditions. I don't think you will be doing many turns on that trail, so why go with a wider ski? They seem to be over-kill and will require a lot more work and energy. Light weight touring skis would be easy to carry in a pack when the conditions dictate hiking.
This is excellent and practical advice.
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

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gitrinec
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by gitrinec » Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:14 pm

Thanks everyone for all the helpful information, by the time I go on my trip next Feb I'll get it all sorted, hopeful to get some skiing in next winter too, can't wait!!

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lilcliffy
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by lilcliffy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:20 am

With STG's informed perspective- this confirms my suspicion that what you need is a XC kit for this trek. Your Asnes Combat skis are excellent BC-XC skis- the only negative is that they are heavy compared to a modern distance-oriented BC-XC touring ski.

The Epochs are lighter- but, the Combats will be WAY more efficient.

Ofor course this makes he Excursion overkill...
Cross-country AND down-hill skiing in the backcountry.
Unashamed to be a "cross-country type" and love skiing down-hill.

MikeK

Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by MikeK » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:59 am

I'm going to interject again.

Keep this in mind: No skiing experience. Trail with significant elevation gain and loss. Carrying a heavy load of climbing equipment. No experience with waxing skis.

While an experienced skier might be able to cover that distance quicker with a leathers and those skis, I'm fairly confident a beginning skier would do better with the Epochs and Excursions.

The energy you might save with the faster skis might easily be lost on falling on the downs, wobbling around on flats and trying to climb (even moderate grades) with stiffly cambered skis.

Personally, I would never send a beginner off on a difficult trail with those Asnes skis.

When I first got my two pairs, my wife picked them up, flexed them and handed them back to me. She had no interest in them whatsoever. :lol:

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gitrinec
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by gitrinec » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:28 pm

Ya, those are some pretty stiff skis, lol Another part of the story is that even getting to the Trailhead will be a journey, as you can only get so far to it by vehicle then you have to ski the rest of the way up the road to the Trailhead, so possibly 14-15 miles of skiing on snow covered road just to get to the trailhead which is all uphill plus another 17-18 miles of the actual trail itself to get to the main pass.

MikeK

Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by MikeK » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:42 pm

Realistically, breaking trail and going uphill, I wouldn't expect to travel much more than 2mph average, unless you are really strong and really fit. Sometimes it can be around 1mph for something like that.

At any rate, I'd assume at least two days of travel to get out, so you'll be carrying some significant load which will slow you down even more.

How many days do you plan? 5? Going back down as long as it doesn't snow and you can use your own track should go a lot faster. Although if you have some hairy descents, it may take you just as long.

Mohair is sounding like a really good idea from where I stand... anything that can get you extra grip and glide. Kickers too maybe if you are going to pull a sled (pulk).

Any chance on getting a snowmobile to shuttle you up the road for your start?

I'm still also thinking the switchbacks might not be a bad idea... sounds like a lot of climbing on skis. And a lot of descent on the way back...

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gitrinec
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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by gitrinec » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:56 pm

I've had some discussions from people in that area before, I might be able to get someone to shuttle me up on a snowmobile, I'm kind of free with time, as in a few weeks but I'm thinking at least 5 days, but depends on the weather being cooperative as well, I originally wasn't even thinking about that slog getting to the trail but remembered a prior discussion I had , lol It's an easy drive up to the trail in the Summer months. I actually had figured about 2mph as well.

If having to slog up that road to the trailhead, the switchbacks might actually be more productive.

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Re: To kicker skin or not to kicker skin that is the question?

Post by STG » Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:29 pm

Gitrinec:

Just a thought- how about some experimentation? A day trip with lighter weight touring skis/mohair skins to Eklund Lake (total 10 miles). I think that first part of the Elkhart/Pole Creek trails might have the best conditions? The higher you climb in the Winds (Seneca Lake trail etc) the more wind and exposure you get. Around Seneca Lake the summer trail travels through some possible avalanche terrain. I don't know if this would be a problem in the winter or early spring? As you know the high alpine country is short on protective trees, but has lots of rocks/huge boulders/ Mt peaks etc. It is amazing country!

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