Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

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MikeK

Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by MikeK » Thu Feb 25, 2016 8:52 pm

I made a number of measurements on these skis for comparison purposes. It doesn't tell the whole story but we can see some similarities and differences.

This tables shows an overveiw, some measurements are from a previous table I made. Camber height and 20 lb gap are an average of two skis.
Eon S78 Ingstad.png
I wanted to look at the variation between skis. I had measured one ski previously and I had another set to measure. I wanted to make sure not to do measurements with NNN-BC bindings on because they may stiffen the ski.

Eon measurement of 3 skis. 2a and 2b are a set, 1 is the ski I measured previously:
Eon Camber Gap.jpg
Same deal with S78s:
S78 Camber Gap.jpg
And with a single pair of Ingstad:
Ingstad Camber Gap.jpg
Then to show the comparison, I averaged each gap for a full pair and plotted, so I left out the "1" ski from the Eon and S78.
Camber Compare.jpg
So now if we look at the full picture it tells us something a little different. First off, these skis are all over the place. The Eons I measured had the most variation, it's a small sample size, so I don't know how indicative this is of all those skis.

Looking at the individual plots, the Ingstads are by far the smoothest skis. They start off pretty soft and just gently get stiffer. The S78s are more abrupt, a bit harsher, but they were also the tightest of the bunch. I was actually surprised how close they measured compared to the others.

Eon 2b was a really weird ski. Low initial camber but then as it compressed it started to look like it's partner.

Make any other conclusions as you like, but that's how these skis measured. Enjoy.

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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by athabascae » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:13 pm

Really interesting stuff Mike. Thanks for your work.

Bottom line is that these are all probably great skis. I'd be curious to see where the older and new e109 fit.

MikeK

Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by MikeK » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:32 pm

I think the bottom line is as I have been saying, these skis are all REALLY similar.

When you hold them (or god forbid, ski them), you might notice some small differences. They all have elements of similarity but none of them are identical. Probably would depend on how picky of a skier you are on how much you much notice the difference.

As I said in the other thread, I noticed one big difference that I don't have a good way to measure is tail stiffness, the Eon is noticeably softer than the other two. Tips are all pretty similar, and all soft I would say.

When I grab and twist them, they all feel pretty similar torsionally. They all have torsion caps, they all have similar dimensions, so we'd expect them to be similar.

Really then what sets them apart is the base features. No two can be had the same. And the Fischer scale and layout is a superior climber. The Eon does not come with skin locks. The new Traverse does not come in a wax version.

So in essence really the Eon is on the downslide. It's an older design that hasn't been updated and developed like the other two have. It shows. It's a good ski but I'd toss it for either the Fischer or the Asnes.

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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by lilcliffy » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:35 pm

athabascae wrote: Bottom line is that these are all probably great skis. I'd be curious to see where the older and new e109 fit.
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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by bgregoire » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:47 pm

Mikek, great stuff!

I have a little recommendation on layout. It's my scientific background.

y= f(x)

x (weight) is the independent variable, and should be on the bottom. camber gap on the y-axis. At the very least, my brain would have a much better time absorbing the info you have provided!

It would be neat to see the following comparison: E89-E99-E109...or the entire S-bound line! hahah
I live for the Telemark arc....The feeeeeeel.....I ski miles to get to a place where there is guaranteed snow to do the deal....TM

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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by MikeK » Thu Feb 25, 2016 10:55 pm

independent and dependent are arbitrary in this case.

I did measure it the way you say, I input load and measure gap but if each point has a unique x for every y then we can easily invert the function and make x as a function of y as it would be. We do this all the time in science. It's function and inverse functions, for example:

y = logx

inverse function would be?

x = 10^y

So anyway, to explain, I plotted it that way for a specific reason, the slope of the line, dy/dx, is then stiffness because stiffness = change in load/displacement

So you can easily look at the lines and see the ones that are steeper are greater stiffness.

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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by bgregoire » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:02 pm

MikeK wrote:independent and dependent are arbitrary in this case.

I did measure it the way you say, I input load and measure gap but if each point has a unique x for every y then we can easily invert the function and make x as a function of y as it would be. We do this all the time in science. It's function and inverse functions, for example:

y = logx

inverse function would be?

x = 10^y

So anyway, to explain, I plotted it that way for a specific reason, the slope of the line, dy/dx, is then stiffness because stiffness = change in load/displacement

So you can easily look at the lines and see the ones that are steeper are greater stiffness.
Of course it can be done. sure. I guess I was wrong in thinking you had not thought about it first. But anyhow, it just seems harder for me to "read" that way. Maybe its justs me. Keep up the the fun work!
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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by athabascae » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:09 pm

bgregoire wrote:Keep up the the fun work!
Indeed.

I'm a science guy too, and it is tempting to totally geek out on your data, Mike.

MikeK

Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by MikeK » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:12 pm

I can send you the raw data if you like. You can plot it anyway you like. You are thinking of it how you apply force to the ski and what you get out, I get it. I'm thinking of in terms of how we talk, and that is in stiffness. If I plot it the other way you get resilience as the slope, which is the inverse of stiffness, and then sometimes people get confused when you do that because we all talk stiffness this and stiffness that. No one talks about resilience.

I also was measuring the wax pocket length, but I don't think my floor is flat enough for that, and one piece of dirt changes it. It does some interesting stuff though, and then I was looking at the camber height vs pocket length.

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Re: Midwidth Ski Measurements: Eon/S78/Ingstad

Post by athabascae » Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:13 pm

MikeK wrote:I wanted to make sure not to do measurements with NNN-BC bindings on because they may stiffen the ski.
FWIW, I have no empirical data, but qualitatively speaking, my Ingstads seemed to stiffen up underfoot considerably once the NNN BC bindings were mounted.

Also, thats a huge difference (4+ inches) in the scale pattern on the Eon and S78....
Last edited by athabascae on Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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