The NNN/BC Truth Thread

[Johnny]

Absolutely.

Plastics boots have NOTHING, nothing to do with cross-country. Your whole leg molded inside a plastic boot with clips is controlling the ski, not the feet itself. It's a whole different skiing technique. Come on RavenT, you know that... SB knows that... Everybody knows that...

So a guy going overland with T4's , Outtabounds and pins is not doing XCD?

Of course not! For your information, this guy is doing what is called "Backcountry Telemark Skiing". With plastic Telemark boots and light Telemark gear. How could it be otherwise? How the hell could that be cross-country skiing?!?!?!?

It's cool! It's fun!! But it's not just cross-country skiing at all... You can call it backcountry, you can call it lightweight skiing, but there is absolutely no XC skiing involved there!!!

[MikeK]

MikeK,

Are you there?

After all those Nordix videos, I wonder if normal NNN/SNS has already had enough strength and reliability. What's more is for sturdier NNN/SNS for BC.

Of course, there are supports by the ridges on the binding plates for lateral movements. However, the grooves of the boots must have derailed sometimes.

I look forward to comments from an engineering viewpoint, not that of alchemist.

I'm still here but the conversation has gone a bit weird for me again... not seeing anything new that hasn't already been mentioned.

I believe the durability, just from my limited knowledge of the sport, to be sufficient of those system. Mainly for the reason that you can't apply as much load to them as you can to plate and a bail. They are lighter and have less structure because of necessity, not because of design weakness.

The icing is reality, as is the issue with clipping in on the autos, but that is my only real world experience.

As far as the semantics of XCD - that goes beyond my interest. Do what you like. That's good enough for me.

[MikeK]

Absolutely.

Plastics boots have NOTHING, nothing to do with cross-country. Your whole leg molded inside a plastic boot with clips is controlling the ski, not the feet itself. It's a whole different skiing technique. Come on RavenT, you know that... SB knows that... Everybody knows that...

So a guy going overland with T4's , Outtabounds and pins is not doing XCD?

Of course not! For your information, this guy is doing what is called "Backcountry Telemark Skiing". With plastic Telemark boots and light Telemark gear. How could it be otherwise? How the hell could that be cross-country skiing?!?!?!?

It's cool! It's fun!! But it's not just cross-country skiing at all... You can call it backcountry, you can call it lightweight skiing, but there is absolutely no XC skiing involved there!!!

I just bought my wife some plastic boots. They will be used for touring. I don't know what to call it, but she likes to have the downhill control. They are Excursions, and for a plastic boot, they flex pretty well. She also tends to need more ankle support no matter what she's doing. She's only planning on using them for when it's hilly and deep snow. Other than that she'll be on her Alaskas... which are preferred for comfort and economy (efficiency)

[Raventele]

Absolutely.

Plastics boots have NOTHING, nothing to do with cross-country. Your whole leg molded inside a plastic boot with clips is controlling the ski, not the feet itself. It's a whole different skiing technique. Come on RavenT, you know that... SB knows that... Everybody knows that...

So a guy going overland with T4's , Outtabounds and pins is not doing XCD?

Of course not! For your information, this guy is doing what is called "Backcountry Telemark Skiing". With plastic Telemark boots and light Telemark gear. How could it be otherwise? How the hell could that be cross-country skiing?!?!?!?

It's cool! It's fun!! But it's not just cross-country skiing at all... You can call it backcountry, you can call it lightweight skiing, but there is absolutely no XC skiing involved there!!!

Really ? Plastic boots do not but super-plastic bindings do ? And most of the boots used by the NNN/BC crowd would melt quite nicely into an amorphous blob of ?? Right..plastic..
But seriously, exactly how much XC is involved in Cima's vids ? Right, none.. Just climbing up to ski down..
T4's and Excursions both flex forward quite nicely, not so smoothly as SOME leathers but they still flex VERY comfortably. And your feet and ankles still work in T4's or Excursions!
I think for the vast majority , the XC largely left the D for the most part quite some time ago.
The emphasis now is certainly not on the wonders of K and G even if you mount a system binding on the likes of an Outtabound..Schleppin' along unbroken snow on a logging road to find some great meadow skipping has very little to do with the great wonders of kick-and-glide..And to top it off , there are many times when a little heavier gear is going to get you there and back much more effectively (less energy spent) than Glittertinds and SNS..
In any case, if you REALLY want the maximal XC experience , you will find it at the Nordic centers on the groomed trails.
And SB apparently does not know that "that"; as of last communication, he's largely skiing plastic.

[Johnny]

I just bought my wife some plastic boots. They will be used for touring. I don't know what to call it, but she likes to have the downhill control.

Hey that's cool! You guys will do some touring on light telemark gear... That's fun, I'm sure she'll like it!

[Raventele]

But I only Tele when it makes sense or is fun for me..
No one HAS to Tele on any freeheel gear, and many do not!
If NNN/BC is XCD as opposed to "Telemark", why does SB say to be prepared to almost always Tele on that gear ?
And why do we virtually never see "Alpine" turns with Cima's crowd ?

[Johnny]

I soooooooo don't care about what people do... As I said, I like all kinds of skiing on all kinds of gear. I've had all kinds of leathers and all kinds of plastics too and I loved them all (Except for the Excursions and T4s, which I really hated...)

But calling everything XCD just because it's cool really pisses me off. Skiing with PLASTIC, "TELEMARK" boots will NEVER be cross-country skiing, whether you like it or not.

-You ski with TELEMARK boots? Then you're doing what we call telemark.
-You ski with XC boots? Then you are doing telemark turns with cross-country boots. Also called XCD.

As a Knight Protector of the Great XCD Tradition, it's my responsibility to work in collaboration with the XCD Police in order to preserve the real meaning of the discipline and make sure "XCD" doesn't lose it's true meaning. Any abuse of the expression "XCD" in public will be reported immediately to the WXCDC (World Cross-Country Downhill Council).

So please, use the word "Telemark" when you are skiing with telemark boots. Only use the word XCD when using actual cross-country boots. Also, please take note that due to limited supplies, the use of bold text will now be limited to only 15 words a day.

Kind regards,
The XCD Knights

[MikeK]

I just bought my wife some plastic boots. They will be used for touring. I don't know what to call it, but she likes to have the downhill control.

Hey that's cool! You guys will do some touring on light telemark gear... That's fun, I'm sure she'll like it!

I intend to push her down some steeper hills too She may not like that... at first.

[MikeK]

Dear Knights Templar of XCD,

What about hybrid boots that incorporate both plastic cuffs and leather?

What say ye of those? Telemark or XC?

Sincerely,

Confused Skier from NY

[Raventele]

I soooooooo don't care about what people do... As I said, I like all kinds of skiing on all kinds of gear. I've had all kinds of leathers and all kinds of plastics too and I loved them all (Except for the Excursions and T4s, which I really hated...)

But calling everything XCD just because it's cool really pisses me off. Skiing with PLASTIC, "TELEMARK" boots will NEVER be cross-country skiing, whether you like it or not.

-You ski with TELEMARK boots? Then you're doing what we call telemark.
-You ski with XC boots? Then you are doing telemark turns with cross-country boots. Also called XCD.

As a Knight Protector of the Great XCD Tradition, it's my responsibility to work in collaboration with the XCD Police in order to preserve the real meaning of the discipline and make sure "XCD" doesn't lose it's true meaning. Any abuse of the expression "XCD" in public will be reported immediately to the WXCDC (World Cross-Country Downhill Council).

So please, use the word "Telemark" when you are skiing with telemark boots. Only use the word XCD when using actual cross-country boots. Also, please take note that due to limited supplies, the use of bold text will now be limited to only 15 words a day.

Kind regards,
The XCD Knights

Right ..Not so fast Mr King/Knight..When I show the lateral weakness of NNN, I hear "That's because it's not NNN/BC ; your NNN is just plain old XC!" Now, let's pause and think about that..The underlying claim is that there is this special class of System gear that is not XC at all ; it's some sort of BC/XCd gear and it's wonderfully suitable to Tele , this BC gear also known as NNN/BC .. There's nothing , I repeat, NADA about the likes of a ski with a profile of 90-75-80 or such being "Cross Country"..absolutely nothing ; try winning an XC race on Ottabounds with NNN/BC and what amounts to, basically, a skate boot..Dare ya..
Hell, by your standards I am the onlyTRUE XCD skier around here; I do tele turns on true XC gear!