No sweat, life's full of disagreements. It's how one goes about it that is key.spopepro wrote: ↑Wed May 24, 2023 1:43 pmI dislike being too argumentative on the internet… but I disagree with most of what you said TallGrass. I *especially* hate doing this in Jlars’ thread—I’m sincere when I say they should be proud of getting out there and getting after it. Now I’m going to point out the mistakes (that they probably realize).
Hey, what's the best color of ski poles to use???There are a LOT of different scenarios.The best tours are done with folks who are moving similarly, including transitions. I don’t ski pattern base skis with folks who aren’t because we transition in different places and it just gets frustrating for everyone. I can’t imagine anyone skiing with slowshoers. Last week we skied from 13500 to the cars at 6800 in 42 minutes. It would be painful waiting the extra 3-4 hours for someone on foot. You should ski with folks on similar equipment, with similar fitness for maximum fun and safety. If I'm skiing steep, I'm not taking someone on leathers with me. (But if someone, including Jlars, wants to ski pattern based light tele/heavy XC stuff with me on lassen some time, I'd be down... just gotta have the same plan)
For example, my recent group had seven people: three skinning up using AT/frame bindings, two snowshoeing with alpine ski gear A-framed, and two snowshoeing. The route up was relatively tame at a closed resort along green runs aside from ducking around a small double black wall and the ridge run. With one turning back early (alpine) in the green, this meant on descent there were three groups of two doing their respective thing and we had comms to keep tabs on each others' progress. Two skied the ascent track back, two shoed the same back, and two skied the bowl which was the slowest initially due to gear change and wet, heavy, sticky snow that made for slower skiing (and some postholing to link a run) until we got back to a green (groomed) run where we caught up.
It was a fun, social outing, relatively short in the grand scheme of things. Even it if was longer, though, there's the devil of NOT having partners "who are moving similarly", so do you 1. not go and stay home, 2. go and adapt as it's better to have a non-perfect-match partner rather than no partner at all? Think about mentor-mentee outings too. That's one way to learn where mismatch is the default.
I will gladly do it where it means they get out safe and there's no S&R call. It helps to establish during initial planning what the priorities are, such as to go out have fun and learn, or to make certain timestamps and pace requirements. For some longer adventure, I have made pace-requirements as they're key to getting from point A to point B before dark or such.It would be painful waiting the extra 3-4 hours for someone on foot.
There are a lot of different snow conditions and slope angles one can encounter out there, as well as different kinds of slides (both skier and snow). Have the tools, skills and knowledge to make something work -- many ways to skin a cat. You'd see this with our group where snowshoers would go right over a little snow ledge where skinners would make a switchback. Personally, I "like" when a group splits up into parties (or even individuals) taking different lines when something isn't bomber rather than risk the whole group caught in the same terrain trap, so long as you maintain line of sight to keep an eye on one another, or a similar plan.I am convinced focusing on self arrest is a trap and foolish. In very soft conditions you don’t need to self-arrest to stop,
I don't know what you consider "really dangerous terrain", but I look at it as if you have it, know how to use it, and it can reduce risk, fair game. There are in-bounds double-black runs that get scraped down where a condor may help -- I'll let the skier decide for themself.Whippets and condors are specialist tools for people who are going into really dangerous terrain intentionally.
There's general rules, and there are specific situations. For me, it's about what the individual can handle and the risk present. For example, just because snow might be getting "too soft" isn't a "turn around" by default for me, rather it's a time to reassess the plan and modify it accordingly, such as taking a different line like moving over to ascend via the rocks.Spring skiing doesn't mean you have to struggle through slush. When it was clear that the snow was getting too soft on the way up it was time to turn around and give up the summit bid. Pushing on and getting later caused both misery and danger. Loose wet slides are seldom fatal, but often cause major injury and Jlars was lucky to escape with just a ride. They are something to always be aware of in the spring, especially when we've been getting poor overnight freezes.
Agreed. There's only so much prep one can do before you just have to 'go'.There's no substitute for time on the mountain and in the terrain tho. Jlars got way more out of going for it than reading 1000 pages of opinions on here.
