Which ski for heavy skier?

[lilcliffy]

Comparing FTX and Rabb in the shop it is hard to see any difference in flex. Testing with a paper cheet both skies seemed to have the same "wax pocket" and Nordic rocker when fully compressed.

This is consistent with my obervations-
from a conventional Nordic ski perspective- if there is a wax pocket on these skis, it is VERY low profile and subtle...
perhaps more than a modern Alpine ski tuned for powder snow- but not more than many conventional cambered alpine skis...

how about versus the Ingstad?
Ingstad noticable more cambered and resistant than the FTX/Rabb?

[mca80]

Whats the difference between the two besides width then?

[telerat]

Thanks for the picture @Chriso. The camera angle could be deceiving, but Rabb seems significantly wider, more than the slightly less than 10% it is according to Asnes' web site with 97-62-86 vs. 104-68-94. When I measure on screen it seems that Rabb is ~20% wider at the tail than Falketind, so I would like to measure them to be sure. Where you at Axel Bruun? I think it would be nice if Rabb is slightly wider, as they currently seems to be a bit too similar.

[Chriso]

how about versus the Ingstad?
Ingstad noticable more cambered and resistant than the FTX/Rabb?

I did not compare with the Ingstad, witch I now regret... I think I were to focused on the other two skis and had it in my mind that the Ingstad surely was more cambered and resistant. I think @Stephen did a real good comparison in another thread https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... 1&start=10

@lilcliffy having skied both skies over some time, witch would you prefer between a Ingstad and FTX, given the only other ski you had were a Gamme?

Whats the difference between the two besides width then?

Had i knew for sure it would have made my choice alot easier... Rabb weighs about 250 grams more. Other than that I think what you get out of the ski is down to prefrance, snow contitions, skills and weight. The Rabb should give more support and flotation, both on flat, uphill and downhill than the FTX. I think for me as a heavier skier the FTX wil still be the better pick given I want to use it for longer trips aswell. The only conditions I see Rabb being better for this is in more demanding snow conditions with deeper and unstable layers. And on those days I don't think I'd set out for any long trips anyways.

[lilcliffy]

how about versus the Ingstad?
Ingstad noticable more cambered and resistant than the FTX/Rabb?

I did not compare with the Ingstad, witch I now regret... I think I were to focused on the other two skis and had it in my mind that the Ingstad surely was more cambered and resistant. I think @Stephen did a real good comparison in another thread https://www.telemarktalk.com/viewtopic. ... 1&start=10

I was just curious-
Every Ingstad/Tonje ski we have and have examined has bee more resistant underfoot- and certainly all of ours are more cambered than the FTX/Rabb-

we have noticed that there is some variability in camber height between some of our Ingstad/Tonje skis-
they are all fairly resistant underfoot- but, there is some variability in camber height.

For example, for a brief period I had two different 205 Ingstad BC- one that was noticeably higher-cambered (not certain that it was noticeably stiffer...)- I sold the higher cambered ski to a bigger skier than me.

These are all solid-wood-cored skis- so there will also be some variability in stiffness and flex between skis.

@lilcliffy having skied both skies over some time, witch would you prefer between a Ingstad and FTX, given the only other ski you had were a Gamme?

I haven't yet decided on this question- and this is my primary test this winter (and we are in the midst of ~40cm of fresh snow falling right now- so I should be able to answer this question very soon!)
To date- the 205 Ingstad BC is my favorite Nordic touring ski- but, it really only shines in deep soft snow + steep terrain. It is a deep snow ski for distance tours that include steep terrain.
The downhill performance of the FTX vs Ingstad is significant however- I have confirmed this for myself.
I have also confirmed (as I expected) that the Ingstad is a better trail-breaker; is more directional; offers better XC "kick"; and is more stable in truly deep snow- despite the wider shovel and tail of the FTX.

So this is where I am at-
if the 196 FTX is an accpetable XC ski in truly deep snow- then it will replace my Ingstad- as the FTX will be so much more fun on slopes.
(I don't need the Ingstad purely for its deep snow XC performance- I already have an even better deep snow XC ski- 210 Combat NATO.)

If the FTX is not an accpetable XC in truly deep snow- than I am either back to my 205 Ingstad-
or, perhaps, a longer Rabb 68 is actually the better ski to be considering in this context...
(I bought my Rabb shortish for purely downhill performance- not to compete within the context of the FTX/Ingstad)
Perhaps a long Rabb is what is required to get that sweet spot of deep snow stability and turning performance...

Anyhoo- I am going to focus on the 196 FTX this month.

I think for me as a heavier skier the FTX wil still be the better pick given I want to use it for longer trips aswell.

Not sure that I understand this...
Are you thinking that the narrower FTX will be a more efficient XC ski?

[lilcliffy]

Whats the difference between the two besides width then?

A few more notes here-

I have been skiing and flexing my 196 FTX and 180 Rabb- a lot.

I don't see any difference in camber between the two-
neither of these skis has a true "wax pocket" from a conventional Nordic ski perspective.

HOWEVER-
I do think that the FTX might have a different flex pattern...
I think that the Rabb 68 has a noticeably smoother, rounder flex than the FTX...
The FTX seems to feel stiffer in the mid-section- when I reverse-flex the FTX- I think that I can feel it- even see it.
Whereas- when I reverse-flex the Rabb- it is moderately stiff (ie stiffer than say a Madshus Guide/Annum/M78)- but it has a smooth, even, round flex.
Perhaps this is what Asnes means when they say (perhaps a poor translation) that the FTX is "double cambered" vs the Rabb?

So- this is my current perspective-
neither of these skis has a resistant camber underfoot like the Ingstad-
both of these skis have a low-profile, single camber-
but, the FTX seems to have a stiff mid-section (in relation to its entire flex pattern).

To be clear- I am not suggesting that the FTX is stiffer than the Rabb- I am suggesting that the overall flex pattern of the two skis is different.

[fisheater]

@lilcliffy that stiffer feeling in the mid-section is what I believe Asnes referred to as “tension” at one time. I even notice it to a lesser degree on my Tindan 86. That Tindan will even preserve that wax pocket on soft, fluffy, cold, hero snow, most of the day.
Perhaps the FT X has a bit more than the Rabb? I don’t know, however from your reports, I’m sure the Rabb kicks fine.

[lilcliffy]

that stiffer feeling in the mid-section is what I believe Asnes referred to as “tension” at one time. I even notice it to a lesser degree on my Tindan 86. That Tindan will even preserve that wax pocket on soft, fluffy, cold, hero snow, most of the day.
Perhaps the FT X has a bit more than the Rabb? I don’t know, however from your reports, I’m sure the Rabb kicks fine.

Right! Yes- "tension" is a good way to describe it-
I think that the FTX has more "tension" in its midsection (relative to its overal longitudinal flex) vs the Rabb, which has a smoother more even flex.
So if that bit of extension facilitates the grip/kick/traction zone of the FTX to release as one strides forwards- that would faciliate XC performance.

[Chriso]

I think for me as a heavier skier the FTX wil still be the better pick given I want to use it for longer trips aswell.

Not sure that I understand this...
Are you thinking that the narrower FTX will be a more efficient XC ski?

Yes and no... Lighter, more directional stability and suposedly a xc like flex. However the wider Rabb should do better in deeper/layered snow if it provides a significantly better float. For a lighter person I would think FTX wil be more efficient in moust conditions.

@lilcliffy I am looking forward to your testresults. Your knowledge are much appreciated!

Thanks for the picture @Chriso. The camera angle could be deceiving, but Rabb seems significantly wider, more than the slightly less than 10% it is according to Asnes' web site with 97-62-86 vs. 104-68-94. When I measure on screen it seems that Rabb is ~20% wider at the tail than Falketind, so I would like to measure them to be sure. Where you at Axel Bruun? I think it would be nice if Rabb is slightly wider, as they currently seems to be a bit too similar.

Yes, this was at Axel Bruun. They had just got a fresh delivery from Åsnes, the store was loaded with skis. Multiple pairs in all sizes of both Rabb and Falketind, along with all other Åsnes skis I did not measure the with. I'll trust in Åsnes data. I do think the ppl working there would help you figure this out tho, they seem very helpfull. BTW they plan on keeping the prices out through the season. I saw Fjellsport put both FTX and Rabb on sale aswell now...

I wonder, since I were happy skiing the FTX in 196, would I allso be happy with Rabb in 196 or should I consider 188. How much support and xc performance wil be lost going down 1 size. I'm just worried since the charts normally puts me on a 180...

[Chriso]

Did another test on the FTX 196 last night. We just had a storm come thru, witch left us with alot of nice powder. I'd say close to ideal condition for testing. Used swix blue wax. Groomed tracks, the ski wonders as expected. Deacent glide. Off track I had a better experience than last time. I did not sink down into the snow as much as last time and I could feel the crust underneath about 10-15 cm powder only compress and not cave in like last time. Not the same banana feeling this time around

Downhill in loose snow this ski is pure fun! (once you get it up to speed) I climbed a smaller hill with ease, ok grip with wax only. Started of down, but to low speed for anything but trying to float from the start, once it got a bit steeper and I picked up some speed, I could easily turn the skies just by switching my weight from one side to the other. One thing is for sure, the FTX is real playfully even in 196.

Another smaal climb and another run downhill, this time further down in an area with more trees and abit deeper snow. Maneuverability was no issue at all, but I was sinking to deep into the snow to gain any deacent speed and float.

Takebacks: FTX is real playfully, even @196. On hard surface or groomed tracks the ski feels 100% flat, the glide is ok, but the ski feels dead. @110kg skier this ski needs alot of speed to float even in just 10cm powder.

Right now I am leaning more towards getting the FTX or Rabb rather than the Ingstad. I don't think I want to miss out on the playfulness of these skis. I just need to decide on witch length...