Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Tahoe Paradise
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:30 pm Post subject: OT--Studying Spanish in Spain...Advice Needed...Now w/photos
I thought that (maybe) there could be some Ttipsters in the know....
ClydesMom has a sabbatical coming up this Fall and we're thinking about heading across the pond for some travel and recreation and study. We may fly in and out of London (where we had a fantastic time in Fall 2006) then travel overland towards Spain. Our current thought is the Basque region near the Pyrenees. We'd like to drop Clyde (now 10 and entering his 5th year of Spanish Immersion schooling....) into a local school for 6-8 weeks while the oldsters maybe did a few hours/day and enjoyed cafe/pub life and excursions on the weekends.
Our friends who've recommended the region have the greatest familiarity with Bilbao and Clyde's kindergarten teacher had gone to University in Pamplona. Both like the area (a lot) and suggest that (compared to other regions in Spain like Catalonia) that speaking/studying Spanish (Castillian) is more accepted because the local language is so extremely different. They've also suggested, however, that we might enjoy a smaller town or city and nobody really knows about whether or not Clyde could go to the local (public, ideally) schools....
Any ideas/stories/personal knowledge is much appreciated.....
Last edited by Clydesdad on Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:56 am; edited 1 time in total
Having learned Spanish in Central America I wouldn't get too hung up on the "where" as far as accent and vocabulary go. People who are fluent are fluent. Very similar to listening to British, SA, or Kiwi/Aussie English for us North Americans. There are certainly huge differences between Spain, Mexico, CA, and SA but realistically educated people who speak the language overcome those quite easily.
I have a good friend from Vigo and it seems there are several language schools there and that's closer to Basque country. Maybe do 3 days a week of private lessons in several locations?
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Tahoe Paradise
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:02 pm Post subject:
Matt J wrote:
Having learned Spanish in Central America I wouldn't get too hung up on the "where" as far as accent and vocabulary go. People who are fluent are fluent. Very similar to listening to British, SA, or Kiwi/Aussie English for us North Americans. There are certainly huge differences between Spain, Mexico, CA, and SA but realistically educated people who speak the language overcome those quite easily.
I have a good friend from Vigo and it seems there are several language schools there and that's closer to Basque country. Maybe do 3 days a week of private lessons in several locations?
I agree about the accents....I'm a bit more concerned about what sort of experience Clyde will have in a school in the more "autonomous" areas in the Northeast. In other words, is school taught in Castellano or in Catalan (or Basque)? We would like to continue his Spanish immersion experience, which in our area is heavily influenced by the dialect/word choices, etc. of the Tapatios (Jalisco, Mexico). A Catalan or Basque immersion experience for Clyde (he, like his dad is a "sensitive" type.....) might be a bit much.....Maybe your friend in Vigo knows....
We'd probably try to rent a flat or house for those couple of months.....
Dobish: Sevilla does seem awfully nice (I was there but only for a day back in 06....)
Iberian Championship (actually Spain-Portugal semifinal of the European Championship--Football/Soccer--kicks off in a minute)....
I think if he learns Basque he can use it a lot in Mexico.
or Idaho for that matter
my friend from Vigo had a beautiful accent, but he only summered there and spent winters in Costa Rica - perhaps a bigger town would offer more of a "school experience" meaning being able to study with his peers, although one on one instruction and field assignments in the community would more fit my bill of "immersion"
I always liked that in the countryside of CR English is not an option so you learn to laugh together instead of feeling laughed at... don't know if that would be similar in Spain having never visited - definitely not as true of their northern neighbors imo - the French peasant is always very sure of his bad English.
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 5410 Location: Between Sea and Sky
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:32 pm Post subject:
While the Basque region is breathtaking and a fantastic journey, I think as an immersive language experience, it would not be the first choice... especially if to broaden the use of simple conversational Spanish.
Given that you're going in the fall, you'll be wintering in Spain. One of the joys of going a country as diverse n/s as Spain, is you can have your cake and eat it to. Basque regions will generally be cool and wet.
If I could go anywhere in Spain for a semester or a year, and winter was part of the game, I'd be in Granada. Not only is it a historic and culturally beautiful city with it's blend of Moorish influence and Spanish stylings, but it is perfectly located in regards to climate and natural access.
Temperate winters with comfortable temp's to suit strolling, touring, and bicycle riding with the family (and bar hopping). Access to the true tapas heart of Spain. Snow-capped peaks visible from most parts of the City. Easy access to the mayhem of the southern costa and beaches. Granada is perfect.
A wonderful walkable downtown core is the heart of the city, flanked by the famous Al Hambre gardens that are ceaselessly beautiful. Crazy gypsies selling insanity everywhere.
The Sierra Nevada ski complex is less than an hour away and boasts one of the longest seasons in Europe. Many sunny days. Relatively low avy danger and 'simpler' terrain gives amazing off-piste easily accessible opportunities.
On the other side is the La Alpujarra and the white villages clinging to slopes and freshwater springs throughout where you can fill your bottle and enjoy the views.
Less than 2 hours away are the beaches of Malaga and Toremolinos and in the off-season, plenty warm for beaching and sand play without as much of the chaotic tourism. Pretty places indeed, destroyed by rampant growth, but lots of local beaches and stricking Med. Sea scenery.
Alhama de Granada is 45 minutes away and is a very special and secret find. Hot springs naturally flowing into the river. A town very much like the much more famous (and now touristy) Ronda, hanging over a gorge filled with hiking and some climbing opportunities, but no tourists.
Near Jaen are the Unesco world heritage town cores of Ubeda and Baeza, both stellar visual treats and amazing tapas to top it off. And a short distance away is the parc naturel de las sierras de cazorlas - the largest biosphere reserve in Spain with amazing hiking opportunities for days and months.
I want to move there just writing this. Try it, you'll like it.
Edit to add: and yes, Granada has a ton of good Spanish schools. Didn't forget about the OP request! _________________ "It's a strange world made up of extreme horizontal and vertical planes. Where you find diagonal, you find skiing."
~Chad Sayers
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 425 Location: Tahoe Paradise
Posted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 11:59 pm Post subject:
WH,
Wow, for a minute there I was thinking that you had cut and pasted something from the tourism board....
I haven't been to Granada but it sure sounds lovely, and I like the Ronda-like town w/o tourists as I have been one (a day tripping tourist in Ronda from my in-laws time share near Estapona)..... The climate in the South IS inviting and "off season" might be pretty nice....
In truth, I haven't been thinking about skiing.....We need to be back by New Year and we were thinking more like early December (for budgetary reasons)..... I need to do more research on these mountains you speak of.....
Anyhow, thanks for the info and (strong) recommendation....
(And Spain win on penalties, after two hours of scoreless footy.....Malaga, with their new big money ownership, might be a place to watch some, not too far from Granada....)
Granada is lovely and an apartment with a view facing the Alhambra would be a lovely place to spend the winter. I almost quit school to buy a guitar and live there. Should have
As far as learning spanish, it's all about immersion. There are so many english speakers all over Europe these days that you almost have to force your yourself to be immersed.
Joined: 27 Jan 2011 Posts: 14 Location: North Lake Tahoe
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:40 am Post subject:
Before selling you some skis last fall, I lived in Spain as both as child and in college.
When I was six we moved to Barcelona for a year so my father could teach at a local university. My parents wisely enrolled my sister and I in a private Catholic school. The local schools were simply not up to the task of educating foreign children, or giving us the support we needed as we integrated into a new culture. Like your son, I underwent intensive language training before moving abroad. The first few months were a challenge.
The real challenge of living in Barcelona, and this will likely apply to Bilabao, or anywhere in the Basque country, is the bilingualism of the locals. My sister and I left Barcelona effectively trilingual, but it was trying for my parents to come in speaking Spanish, but be expected to converse daily in Catalan. As an interesting anecdote, one night my sister was rushed to the ER with a high fever and seizures. The staff refused to speak to my parents in Spanish, much less English, until our US passports were furnished. If your goal is immersion and language improvement for you son, I would insist upon living somewhere where only castellano is spoken. The best immersion comes from hanging out and talking with people. A child in school will learn the argot of his peers. The local children in the país vasco and cataluña will speak a pastiche of castellano and basque/catalan. Your son will come home speaking this pidgin tongue. Though this will make for a great life experience, it won't necessarily further his English/Spanish bilingualism.
Attending Catholic school in Barcelona was probably the best educational option for my sister and I. The local schools were terrible, and didn't have the ability to cater to our special needs. The classes were all taught in Castillian. We had one period a day of Catalan instruction, from which I was exempted, and spent time with a tutor (or in a lower grade class) to buck up on my grammar. Likewise, I was exempted from most English classes, until it came time to talk. On the playground, the kids all spoke Catalan. Though I attended a Catholic school, I fell in age between first communion and confirmation, so there wasn't any religious instruction. Though the school did go to some lengths to accommodate us, there certainly were difficulties.
In college I lived in Córdoba for a year, and I highly recommend it. Córdoba is a smaller city, about 100,000 that has a large and well-populated historic quarter, and plenty of housing that isn't US-style tract or subdivisions, which sadly have been growing in popularity in Spain, especially anywhere near Málaga where the British expatriate community has undue influence.
I agree with WH that Grenada is another great option. It's a cool town, not too far by train from skiing, Madrid, and other great cities. Fall in northern Spain can be pretty wet and miserable. Bilbao is at the same latitude as VT, NH, MI, ID, and OR. If I had a winter in the Mediterranean, I'd aim for something farther south, and a little warmer.
Córdoba, Sevilla, Grenada, and Valencía are all great cities to live in. The support for US expats will be better in cities versus small towns, but your family will have an equally awesome experience no matter where you decide to live. The hard part will be finding a school that will enroll CDjr. Private will be easier than public, and most private schools in Spain are parochial, or International (meaning they teach in English).
As a final note, I had a tremendously difficult time integrating my castillian Spanish with the Mexican and Guatemalan Spanish of the kids I went to school with and played soccer with growing up in the Bay. Though we were able to talk in a classroom setting, our dialects were completely different, which required re-learning slang. To this day I have no issues understanding Spaniards, Argentineans, and Chileans, but Dominicans, Cubans, and Puerto Ricans are require much more attention for me to understand and converse with.
Joined: 17 Mar 2005 Posts: 223 Location: Hispania Ulterior
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 9:52 am Post subject:
Hi Clysdedad:
I hope this helps. Here is a list of the public schools that are part of the bilingual program between the Spanish Ministry of Education (MEC) and the British Council.
Pamplona (Navarra) is a good choice, they have a good public system and several schools which are within the British Council Program. It is considered the best town in Spain in terms of quality of life. Also in terms of schooling for your child it might be easier. Because it is not necessary to take Basque. That is not the case in the Basque country. See info here
[url]http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euskera_en_el_sistema_educativo [/url]
. The local language is also used as teaching language in Catalunya and Galicia. Along the north other towns which are not bad at all are: Burgos, Leon, Santander, Gijón or Oviedo.
In terms of schools we have three types: public schools, “concertados” and private. The “concertados” are partially subsided by the state, and they are often catholic schools. Something that you have to give it consideration to is that enrolment is happening right now. Finding a spot for your kid might a bit tricky, specially, if he would only be attending school for a couple of months. Since you know someone from Pamplona, it might useful if you can get some contacts in that regard.
Joined: 30 Mar 2005 Posts: 5410 Location: Between Sea and Sky
Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:11 pm Post subject:
I completely agree with PV on the strong bias to Catalan and the challenges in a more traditional Spanish language experience.
It's hard for me not to sound like a tourist brochure for Granada, as I've visited several times and yet to find anything I don't like about it and it's geographical location to lots of great and very very diverse stuff.
I also agree with Cordoba for a possible less expensive and more 'comfortable' city with more public open space given the expanses along the river. If considering Cordoba, the district around the university is great for a family, with easy walking to the zoo, the river, and the Parque Cruz Conde, which simply has the best children's public park (free) with play features and water parks for kids aged 3 to 16 that won't get boring over a semester. Great to have in your backyard. Summer is freaking hot, but yoiu won't be there then.
Mrs. WH is from Valencia and later Benidorm. So we've spent lots of time in each. Benidorm is no place to settle for a few months, but great people watching (if drunk Brit's your idea of great people watching). Valencia is a great city and should be experienced during the Las Fallas festival. But I'd still choose Granada or Cordoba or Sevilla over Valencia any day.
Good luck and let us know what you choose and share your experience!
PV... My Spanish is far from fluent, but I don't understand how you can undertand Chileno!!! That's a twisted dialect - what the hell happened to the vowels????? _________________ "It's a strange world made up of extreme horizontal and vertical planes. Where you find diagonal, you find skiing."
~Chad Sayers
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