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Fast and Furious
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Bunion



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Prospective or Perspective? Embarassed
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otis of moab



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5700
Location: Colorado Higher Country

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chemman wrote:
Al nailed it on this one.

It is one thing to have done a covert op that went bad. ie. losing your guns you were tracking or your informant dies of lead poisoning

But it is different when you illegally trade drugs for guns. i.e. Reagan

Or cover up your involvement in illegal b&e's. i.e. Nixon

Prospective, is all about prospective, unless you are a conservative idiot then you have none

Rolling Eyes


Nice to know you have all the inside scoop on this non-issue.

Razz

And while you're at it, tell us why the President is bothering with claiming executive privelege. Just curious.
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otis

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chemman



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5934
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 1:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

otis of moab wrote:
chemman wrote:
Al nailed it on this one.

It is one thing to have done a covert op that went bad. ie. losing your guns you were tracking or your informant dies of lead poisoning

But it is different when you illegally trade drugs for guns. i.e. Reagan

Or cover up your involvement in illegal b&e's. i.e. Nixon

Prospective, is all about prospective, unless you are a conservative idiot then you have none

Rolling Eyes


Nice to know you have all the inside scoop on this non-issue.

Razz

And while you're at it, tell us why the President is bothering with claiming executive privelege. Just curious.




Duh! That is obvious, He is hiding something.

Rolling Eyes
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TeleAl



Joined: 25 Dec 2004
Posts: 5757
Location: Switzerland

PostPosted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

otis of moab wrote:
chemman wrote:
Al nailed it on this one.

It is one thing to have done a covert op that went bad. ie. losing your guns you were tracking or your informant dies of lead poisoning

But it is different when you illegally trade drugs for guns. i.e. Reagan

Or cover up your involvement in illegal b&e's. i.e. Nixon

Prospective, is all about prospective, unless you are a conservative idiot then you have none

Rolling Eyes


Nice to know you have all the inside scoop on this non-issue.

Razz

And while you're at it, tell us why the President is bothering with claiming executive privelege. Just curious.


Remember last week, when your lot was screaming about sensitive info being released?
Something about helping the enemy, putting people lives at risk, etc.
Valerie someoneorother. Laughing
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JPL



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Murdered Border Agent’s Family Says President Obama ‘Compounding This Tragedy’ with Executive Privilege Assertion

...parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.: "Attorney General Eric Holder’s refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama’s assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth.”

The Terrys said that their son “was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious.”

The mother of the slain agent: “My son and I were very, very close,” she continued. “And my son was a person that believed in justice and he believed in telling the truth. He was a man of his honor. And if anybody knew him, they knew that. And I know he would be saying ‘you know what, I died for my country.’ He was a true American and I think he deserves the truth and I think everybody should know the truth. And if this was a bad thing they did with Fast and Furious it should be acknowledged so it never happens to anybody else’s son.”

ABC News
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stevesliva



Joined: 11 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought people killed people, not guns. Oh well. Guess that slogan only matters when you're arguing against gun control laws, not controlling guns. Laughing
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chemman



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

JPL wrote:
Murdered Border Agent’s Family Says President Obama ‘Compounding This Tragedy’ with Executive Privilege Assertion

...parents Josephine Terry and Kent Terry Sr.: "Attorney General Eric Holder’s refusal to fully disclose the documents associated with Operation Fast and Furious and President Obama’s assertion of executive privilege serves to compound this tragedy. It denies the Terry family and the American people the truth.”

The Terrys said that their son “was killed by members of a Mexican drug cartel armed with weapons from this failed Justice Department gun trafficking investigation. For more than 18 months we have been asking our federal government for justice and accountability. The documents sought by the House Oversight Committee and associated with Operation Fast and Furious should be produced and turned over to the committee. Our son lost his life protecting this nation, and it is very disappointing that we are now faced with an administration that seems more concerned with protecting themselves rather than revealing the truth behind Operation Fast and Furious.”

The mother of the slain agent: “My son and I were very, very close,” she continued. “And my son was a person that believed in justice and he believed in telling the truth. He was a man of his honor. And if anybody knew him, they knew that. And I know he would be saying ‘you know what, I died for my country.’ He was a true American and I think he deserves the truth and I think everybody should know the truth. And if this was a bad thing they did with Fast and Furious it should be acknowledged so it never happens to anybody else’s son.”

ABC News


Ok so here is the idea behind Obama's move. If you have some covert technique to try to get some desirable outcome you don't expose the technique. That is just fu'king dumb.
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satsuma



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Obama's real intention is to keep the controversy alive and keep it in the news. The Republicans didn't learn from the mistakes of Ken Starr.

Except for political junkies or those on the right that want red meat, no one cares very much.

The Congressional investigation has been going on for over a year. Fast and furious was shut down a long time ago.

The investigation focuses attention away from the economy, which is to Obama's advantage. Also, he can complain that Congress has spent it's time doing endless investigations, rather than doing something about the economy.
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Ron R.



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

satsuma wrote:
The Republicans didn't learn from the mistakes of Ken Starr... no one cares very much.


Wow, I'm sure the Terry family is comforted to know that their son's murder by thugs bearing weapons provided by Fast and Furious is the equivalent of Bill C. prematurely blowing his load on a teenager's chest. They should just give up their quest for the truth. Rolling Eyes
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chemman



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ron R. wrote:
satsuma wrote:
The Republicans didn't learn from the mistakes of Ken Starr... no one cares very much.


Wow, I'm sure the Terry family is comforted to know that their son's murder by thugs bearing weapons provided by Fast and Furious is the equivalent of Bill C. prematurely blowing his load on a teenager's chest. They should just give up their quest for the truth. Rolling Eyes


WOW, never stops being amazing... Laughing
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Andy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's good to see that your hearts have been opened to the suffering of victims of government malfeasance, like Cindy Sheehan and the Tillmans.
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freeheelwilly



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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Location: on your nerves....

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy wrote:
It's good to see that your hearts have been opened to the suffering of victims of government malfeasance, like Cindy Sheehan and the Tillmans.


Laughing What was the "government malfeasance" in Sheehan's case again?

I can't believe you're referencing that nut job. Here's some of her latest nonsense:

Quote:
I am sorry, but if you believe the newest death of OBL, you're stupid. Just think to yourself--they paraded Saddam's dead sons around to prove they were dead--why do you suppose they hastily buried this version of OBL at sea? This lying, murderous Empire can only exist with your brainwashed consent--just put your flags away and THINK!
She also notes:

It's also easier just to swallow the lies of the Empire like Monica Lewinsky swallowed Clinton's sperm. It works for me.

www.sfist.com/2011/05/02/cindy_sheehan_calls_bin_ladens_deat.php
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Andy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok. I'll try again without the oblique sarcasm.

We alter our perception of an incident when we choose to focus on the noble well-intentioned warrior who launches the rocket or the brothers, sons, sisters or mothers tragically affected where it lands. Both are the ttruth. Government security operations invariably exist at the intersection of good intention and bad behavior. When we politicize the event, we knowingly, or unknowingly take a convenient path of self-rightiousness that allows us to ignore the suffering caused. How might things be different if we just noticed more of the truth?
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freeheelwilly



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Location: on your nerves....

PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Andy wrote:
Ok. I'll try again without the oblique sarcasm.

We alter our perception of an incident when we choose to focus on the noble well-intentioned warrior who launches the rocket or the brothers, sons, sisters or mothers tragically affected where it lands. Both are the ttruth. Government security operations invariably exist at the intersection of good intention and bad behavior. When we politicize the event, we knowingly, or unknowingly take a convenient path of self-rightiousness that allows us to ignore the suffering caused. How might things be different if we just noticed more of the truth?


There's also often some not-so-pleasant "truth" when the Government doesn't engage in security operations.

You don't have any answers. In fact, you don't even know where to look.
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Andy



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are right. I there are undoubtedly bad consequences of inaction and I don't have the answer but I have the humility to know and admit it and a commitment to doing my best to live i n concert with my values and accepting that suffering did not start with F&F and will not end there, but i do my best not to add to it
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