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ghostofcarl
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 6583
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 Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 12:56 am Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: | | satsuma wrote: | There is actually good reason for the divergence.
Gasoline in New York harbor is imported product. Outside of the Western Hemisphere, the price of most crude oil is related to the market price of Brent (North Sea) crude. A significant portion of the gasoline on the east coast was (and is?) actually imported from eastern Hemisphere refineries, since there is a net surplus of gasoline and deficiency of diesel/heating oil in Europe.
The West Texas intermediate price is the price of crude out of storage in Cushing Oklahoma. Tanks in that area have been running full, until the last few weeks when a pipeline was converted to crude oil, it was difficult to get crude out of Cushing to Gulf Coast refineries. There has also been more oil available from Canadian tar sands (without the pipeline) and from shale in North Dakota, which also can't get to the East Coast. Refiineries on the East Coast have been closing since they are losing money.
This is a chart of the Brent vs. WTI (Cushing) crude price. You'll have to change the scale to 5 years to see what happened in 2010. (if you check the last few weeks, the spread has narrowed due to the pipeline check and the European financial crises):
http://ycharts.com/indicators/brent_wti_spread |
I like your explanation but there is a divergence here too:
 |
various things here and in following links.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/11/16/749851/bye-bye-wti-brent-spread-disconnect/
it's not evil capitalism making things worse in this case |
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stevesliva
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 10135
Location: SEA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| ghostofcarl wrote: | | it's not evil capitalism making things worse in this case |
Inconceivable. The GOP is responsible or Obama is responsible, of course. |
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vdrifter11
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 2034
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 1:12 am Post subject: |
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What happens when Healthcare is basically a utility,
as opposed to an investment that answers directly
to its Wall Street masters?
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5829
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: |
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| ghostofcarl wrote: | | chemman wrote: | | satsuma wrote: | There is actually good reason for the divergence.
Gasoline in New York harbor is imported product. Outside of the Western Hemisphere, the price of most crude oil is related to the market price of Brent (North Sea) crude. A significant portion of the gasoline on the east coast was (and is?) actually imported from eastern Hemisphere refineries, since there is a net surplus of gasoline and deficiency of diesel/heating oil in Europe.
The West Texas intermediate price is the price of crude out of storage in Cushing Oklahoma. Tanks in that area have been running full, until the last few weeks when a pipeline was converted to crude oil, it was difficult to get crude out of Cushing to Gulf Coast refineries. There has also been more oil available from Canadian tar sands (without the pipeline) and from shale in North Dakota, which also can't get to the East Coast. Refiineries on the East Coast have been closing since they are losing money.
This is a chart of the Brent vs. WTI (Cushing) crude price. You'll have to change the scale to 5 years to see what happened in 2010. (if you check the last few weeks, the spread has narrowed due to the pipeline check and the European financial crises):
http://ycharts.com/indicators/brent_wti_spread |
I like your explanation but there is a divergence here too:
|
various things here and in following links.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/11/16/749851/bye-bye-wti-brent-spread-disconnect/
it's not evil capitalism making things worse in this case |
WTF GOC copulate
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Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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satsuma
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3323
Location: Baton Rouge for a while
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| ghostofcarl wrote: | | chemman wrote: | | satsuma wrote: | There is actually good reason for the divergence.
Gasoline in New York harbor is imported product. Outside of the Western Hemisphere, the price of most crude oil is related to the market price of Brent (North Sea) crude. A significant portion of the gasoline on the east coast was (and is?) actually imported from eastern Hemisphere refineries, since there is a net surplus of gasoline and deficiency of diesel/heating oil in Europe.
The West Texas intermediate price is the price of crude out of storage in Cushing Oklahoma. Tanks in that area have been running full, until the last few weeks when a pipeline was converted to crude oil, it was difficult to get crude out of Cushing to Gulf Coast refineries. There has also been more oil available from Canadian tar sands (without the pipeline) and from shale in North Dakota, which also can't get to the East Coast. Refiineries on the East Coast have been closing since they are losing money.
This is a chart of the Brent vs. WTI (Cushing) crude price. You'll have to change the scale to 5 years to see what happened in 2010. (if you check the last few weeks, the spread has narrowed due to the pipeline check and the European financial crises):
http://ycharts.com/indicators/brent_wti_spread |
I like your explanation but there is a divergence here too:
|
various things here and in following links.
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2011/11/16/749851/bye-bye-wti-brent-spread-disconnect/
it's not evil capitalism making things worse in this case |
There's a divergence, but it's the gasoline price that's depressed over the last two years, not the crude oil price.
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satsuma
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3323
Location: Baton Rouge for a while
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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| satsuma wrote: | There is actually good reason for the divergence.
Gasoline in New York harbor is imported product. Outside of the Western Hemisphere, the price of most crude oil is related to the market price of Brent (North Sea) crude. A significant portion of the gasoline on the east coast was (and is?) actually imported from eastern Hemisphere refineries, since there is a net surplus of gasoline and deficiency of diesel/heating oil in Europe.
The West Texas intermediate price is the price of crude out of storage in Cushing Oklahoma. Tanks in that area have been running full, until the last few weeks when a pipeline was converted to crude oil, it was difficult to get crude out of Cushing to Gulf Coast refineries. There has also been more oil available from Canadian tar sands (without the pipeline) and from shale in North Dakota, which also can't get to the East Coast. Refiineries on the East Coast have been closing since they are losing money.
This is a chart of the Brent vs. WTI (Cushing) crude price. You'll have to change the scale to 5 years to see what happened in 2010. (if you check the last few weeks, the spread has narrowed due to the pipeline check and the European financial crises):
http://ycharts.com/indicators/brent_wti_spread |
I don't think either Chemman or Carl normally read this type of stuff, but here's another discussion of the situation and another graph:
http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2012-06-15/oil-prices-keep-falling-but-a-strange-gap-persists
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James
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 6978
Location: Castle Rock, CO
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| Posted: Sun Jun 17, 2012 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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Satsuma, thanks for the interesting info.
I wonder why chemman has not charged blindly in with one of his smells like bullshit pictures because I was smelling a lot of bullshit from his posts.  |
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5829
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:41 am Post subject: |
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| James wrote: | Satsuma, thanks for the interesting info.
I wonder why chemman has not charged blindly in with one of his smells like bullshit pictures because I was smelling a lot of bullshit from his posts. |
Yupper theryall a go!
No explanation for the divergence except what I would have xpected.
Cash Cows. Why look the horse in the mouth?
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Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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James
Joined: 24 Jan 2005
Posts: 6978
Location: Castle Rock, CO
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| Chemman, please expand on what you expected and how the second chart supports this. |
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5829
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 2:12 am Post subject: |
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Gas? WTF does that have to do with health care?
Just wondering?
The price per gallon versus the price per barrel is my own thinking that the oil company's are taking advantage of the consumer. Surely that is not the case as you all have made clear.
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Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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satsuma
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3323
Location: Baton Rouge for a while
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:20 am Post subject: |
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If you want to go back to medical care, the US has a system that rewards more procedures, more test....--why lawsuitas may have a part, I don't think it is most of it. When specialists do something, they always seem to require a preliminary appointment, and a follow-up appointment--ever wonder why?
A good part of our medical care is spent on people close to death. There is a culture, rightly or wrongly, in the US to do anything to prolong a life. It becomes easier when someone else, particularly the government, is paying for it.
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"It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" Earl Weaver |
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chugach001
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 802
Location: So. Vermont
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| chemman wrote: | | The price per gallon versus the price per barrel is my own thinking that the oil company's are taking advantage of the consumer. |
Ralph Lauren takes advantage of the consumer. So does Yvon Chouinard, Whole Foods and even the advisers who manage your trust fund. And you expect oil companies to act like the Habitat for Humanity?
Grow up! |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 11426
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| vdrifter11 wrote: | What happens when Healthcare is basically a utility,
as opposed to an investment that answers directly
to its Wall Street masters? |
Good question.
What does/would happen? |
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5829
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| chugach001 wrote: | | chemman wrote: | | The price per gallon versus the price per barrel is my own thinking that the oil company's are taking advantage of the consumer. |
Ralph Lauren takes advantage of the consumer. So does Yvon Chouinard, Whole Foods and even the advisers who manage your trust fund. And you expect oil companies to act like the Habitat for Humanity?
Grow up! |
There is a huge difference between those that you mentioned and the Big Oil Companies. The government leases public land for almost nothing so these companies can suck the oil out, oil that belongs to the American Public. Then they sell it back to the American public at a huge profit. Destroy the land, steal what is rightfully the American publics and then gouge them at the pumps. All grown up now. \
They should pay their fair share just like the filthy rich should. It is no wonder this country is so hugely in debt. Wars that are never needed or paid for, tax breaks for the filthy rich and subsidies for companies making more money than anyone or anything ever, ever. Fuc{ing patriots, right, Fuc{ing thieves.
_________________
Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison.
BF's French lady.
http://cleardarksky.com/c/LkDllnObCokey.html |
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otis of moab
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 5700
Location: Colorado Higher Country
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| Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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I've asked before and am still waiting for one of you enlightened ones to define "fair share".
So many use the term but nobody appears capable of defining it.
C'mon and step up or quit saying it.
_________________
otis
Federal policy is dividing society between "those who work for a living and those who vote for a living".
-H.L. Mencken
All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher.
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