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Why is American healthcare so stinkin expensive?
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axebiker



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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Location: Saint Paul, MN
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Litigation.
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French For Cant Tele



Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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Location: Mammoth Lakes (sometimes)
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
miked wrote:
Another reason is that doctors are paid more in the U.S. than they are in other countries, even wealthier countries than the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/09/08/140286295/how-are-u-s-doctors-overpaid-it-s-the-fees-stupid
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08docs.html

Im sure part of the reason doctors get paid more here is that college tuition is so high. In many other countries tuition is lower or free.

The health care reform act actually reduces the amount doctors are paid for medicare services. This is a huge reason many doctors are opposed to it.


How about free Med school for any student willing to charge Medicare %50 for a ten year period?
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chemman



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
Capitalistic GREED. It is driven by the same thing as the petroleum industry GREED. That and it helps that they have you over a barrel. You don't have any choice but to see a doctor and they get to charge what they want. It helps a lot to feed their greed if you have insurance that they can milk for all it's worth.
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chemman



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
axebiker wrote:
Litigation.

Malpractice?
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axebiker



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
chemman wrote:
axebiker wrote:
Litigation.

Malpractice?


Nah. Mostly anyway. You can't cure everything though.
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nils



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
not saying I agree w/ all the 'reasons' in this list, but it's long enough to provide a useful starting point fer discussion:

http://moneyland.time.com/2010/02/25/why-is-health-care-so-expensive-let-us-count-the-conspirators/

Quote:
“Perverse incentives.” Doctors and hospitals get paid not for keeping their patients healthy, but for the specific, expense-able services they provide. They earn more money for each test, office visit, and treatment that occurs. With such an incentive system, the rational capitalist approach is to have more tests, more office visits, and more treatments. And that’s pretty much what happens. In this sort of system, a perfectly healthy patient brings the doctor and the hospital no income, whereas a chronically unhealthy patient is a much better customer. The incentives encourage more services while not encouraging overall health … which leads to more expensive health care for everyone.



I've seen pilot studies in which docs were paid based on an overall index (averaged) of wellness outcomes of patients, rather than procedure billing. results were encouraging.
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axebiker



Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
chemman wrote:
Capitalistic GREED.


Ha!!

Fly the colors, man.
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satsuma



Joined: 08 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Republicans have had since 1988 to have a plan. Their plan has been the status quo. The health care overall is not perfect, but its a better starting point than what we had before.

I think the most and least popular parts of the reform are inseparable. Insurance companies are not going to cover pre-existing conditions and guarantee insurability to people that didn't buy insurance before they got sick.
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nils



Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
chemman wrote:
Capitalistic GREED. It is driven by the same thing as the petroleum industry GREED. That and it helps that they have you over a barrel. You don't have any choice but to see a doctor and they get to charge what they want. It helps a lot to feed their greed if you have insurance that they can milk for all it's worth.


A good friend of mine is a surgeon. Lived frugally during school (still does), has $300,000 in student loans. Works his ass off from 7 am on every weekday, and spends many hours at night or on weekends on paperwork. His malpractice insurance premiums are a couple grand a month, so, combined w/ loan payments, he can't even consider buying a house or apartment for at least another few years (he's been a practicing doc for 4 yrs).

not saying to get out the violin...eventually he will be wealthy...my point is that college education costs are a bubble, and med school costs are part of that.

so some of the greed is upstream.
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ghostofcarl



Joined: 22 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
axebiker wrote:
chemman wrote:
axebiker wrote:
Litigation.

Malpractice?


Nah. Mostly anyway. You can't cure everything though.


You never cease to parrot bullshit without basis, do you axebiker?

By some measures<2% of healthcare costs. Healthcare costs are growing double figures. Explain this to me retard.

Last edited by ghostofcarl on Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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SteveK



Joined: 19 Jan 2005
Posts: 3356
Location: The bull's eye
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
I believe Orange County, CA (pop. 1/10th of Canada) has more MRIs than all of Canada. James point stands, however it's not really the machines, it's the trained technicians/specialists that administer and analyse the results that have a bigger effect on costs. And these are faced by all developed nations, so it doesn't explain the OP graph.

the two areas that are unique to the US are the amounts going to middle-men/insurers, and higher productivity in other sectors in the US. The former can be addressed with no impact on health outcomes, while the latter is just the price of being productive.

As for British Columbia, MRIs have been a problem so they are throwing money at it - VIHA has improved their wait times, CHA probably has as well. ACL is fully covered, wait lists can be found here - click on the legs and select "Knees - ACL Repair".
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chemman



Joined: 07 Dec 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
nils wrote:
chemman wrote:
Capitalistic GREED. It is driven by the same thing as the petroleum industry GREED. That and it helps that they have you over a barrel. You don't have any choice but to see a doctor and they get to charge what they want. It helps a lot to feed their greed if you have insurance that they can milk for all it's worth.


A good friend of mine is a surgeon. Lived frugally during school (still does), has $300,000 in student loans. Works his ass off from 7 am on every weekday, and spends many hours at night or on weekends on paperwork. His malpractice insurance premiums are a couple grand a month, so, combined w/ loan payments, he can't even consider buying a house or apartment for at least another few years (he's been a practicing doc for 4 yrs).

not saying to get out the violin...eventually he will be wealthy...my point is that college education costs are a bubble, and med school costs are part of that.

so some of the greed is upstream.


I don't think the greed is the Doctors for the most part, except elective surgery. The greed is driven by the huge medical companys. They drive up the price of rooms, drugs, and doctors that work under their corporate name.
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chugach001



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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Location: So. Vermont
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
axebiker wrote:
Litigation.


Nope. Talk to any ambulance chaser and they're singing the blues. Even the horrid tales don't get properly litigated. North Caroline went two year a while back without a single med-mal award. And over 100 people died in the OR.
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chugach001



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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Location: So. Vermont
PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
chemman wrote:
Capitalistic GREED. It is driven by the same thing as the petroleum industry GREED. That and it helps that they have you over a barrel. You don't have any choice but to see a doctor and they get to charge what they want. It helps a lot to feed their greed if you have insurance that they can milk for all it's worth.


Overly simplistic as always and about 10% accurate at best.
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chugach001



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote
miked wrote:
Another reason is that doctors are paid more in the U.S. than they are in other countries, even wealthier countries than the U.S.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2011/09/08/140286295/how-are-u-s-doctors-overpaid-it-s-the-fees-stupid
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/us/08docs.html

Im sure part of the reason doctors get paid more here is that college tuition is so high. In many other countries tuition is lower or free.

The health care reform act actually reduces the amount doctors are paid for medicare services. This is a huge reason many doctors are opposed to it.


Talk to any doc and they'll tell you that they're getting less and less by the year. I know an orthopod who now gets 1/4 the amount today for a hip than he did 10 years ago. No one is getting rich, we're just buying more and more medical care by the year.
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