Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:54 am Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against?
Grant wrote:
chugach001 wrote:
I'm trying to picture that - keeping your job from threat of whom? This might not be accurate but I think it goes something like this; You're Secretary of Transportation for a state (not NJ or Wisc). You report to the Governor. The road worker union wants more money. You want to "do well at your job" and the Governor wants to get re-elected. You have to balance giving in to the union demands with some abstract fear of public funding?
Compare that to the owner of a trucking company facing a union bargaining order? By a factor of 100, I just don't see any comparison.
But, taking into account your statement about (barring direct owners) we could look at a large public company. Unlike our public official, they would call in "union negotiators" who are extremely well paid modern day union busters. And it's a fair fight as both sides are represented by specialists who are excellent at what they do. Again, the public official is, IMO, a paper tiger. I may be wrong about this but can't see where there is a balanced dynamic in these negotiations.
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How about this - you're a VP of HR at a public college. The operations are all unionized. You have to negotiate on behalf of the college for the next 3 year contract. If you blow it, the president of the college has the right to fire your ass. Any incentive?
And no, public officials don't always call in 'union negotiators'.
Oooh, Chugach, he's got you cornered and your ass is on the line. How scary!!! Except, there's no such scenario. It's the school's trustees that are responsible for union contracts. And why would any college send in a sacrificial lamb to negotiate with a group of attorneys representing an entire union? Unless of course it wanted to rubber stamp union demands. _________________ Obama's IRS: Dept. of Tolerance, Punish Your Enemies Division. Sgt. Schultz, Director
Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Posts: 820 Location: So. Vermont
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:46 am Post subject:
I recently met a woman who was the #1 administrator at the state university and she says; that she resisted the unions with "kid gloves". She would feign resistance but they always got 80% of what they want and she fights them around the 20 yard line. This was the culture and no one was going to push back on a union at a public university. When I shared my recent private sector union experience she sheepishly acknowledged that it was a night-and-day difference.
So, I'm still not sure we found any credible balance to the enormous sway public sector unions have in our lives.
Joined: 03 Feb 2009 Posts: 820 Location: So. Vermont
Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:05 pm Post subject:
ghostofcarl wrote:
chugach001 wrote:
the enormous sway public sector unions have in our lives.
How do they have an enormous sway in your life?
Okay, let me restate with less hyperbole; the have significant sway over my pocketbook.
Generally, half of government functional spending is in labor. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that with beni's and pension and high pay, govt workers are paid 34% more than private sector workers. So that's 17% of my taxes going to over-pay workers who have no true resistance when they want more pay. And there is no market or political mechanism to get them back down to an affordable level.
the enormous sway public sector unions have in our lives.
How do they have an enormous sway in your life?
Okay, let me restate with less hyperbole; the have significant sway over my pocketbook.
Generally, half of government functional spending is in labor. The Bureau of Labor Statistics says that with beni's and pension and high pay, govt workers are paid 34% more than private sector workers. So that's 17% of my taxes going to over-pay workers who have no true resistance when they want more pay. And there is no market or political mechanism to get them back down to an affordable level.
For someone who loves to bust my balls about how I don't use math your math really sucks. Or maybe you just choose bullshit datapoints like "functional" to make your point? Looking at the 2011 Federal Budget:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2011.png
You'd have to be high to use your line of reasoning
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