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chugach001
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 820
Location: So. Vermont
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 Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:36 pm Post subject: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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When there is a union campaign at a factory it's pretty obvious where the two sides of that tangle are. The owner is squeezed between global competitors and employee efficiency while the workers want to take home more pay. And I get it and there can be a productive friction at work here.
When it's a gov't agency and the workers want more pay, benefits, etc - who exactly is working to protect the funding side?
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chemman
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 5934
Location: Flying over the Earth poisoning you with chemtrails
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:39 pm Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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| chugach001 wrote: | When there is a union campaign at a factory it's pretty obvious where the two sides of that tangle are. The owner is squeezed between global competitors and employee efficiency while the workers want to take home more pay. And I get it and there can be a productive friction at work here.
When it's a gov't agency and the workers want more pay, benefits, etc - who exactly is working to protect the funding side?
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Supervisors, managers and SES
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Sugarloafer
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 9993
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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| chugach001 wrote: | When there is a union campaign at a factory it's pretty obvious where the two sides of that tangle are. The owner is squeezed between global competitors and employee efficiency while the workers want to take home more pay. And I get it and there can be a productive friction at work here.
When it's a gov't agency and the workers want more pay, benefits, etc - who exactly is working to protect the funding side?
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Nobody with any skin in the game.
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gen x tele
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
Posts: 2120
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| Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | who exactly is working to protect the funding side? |
The muppets. 
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Grant
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 8583
Location: Firmly planted
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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| Sugarloafer wrote: | | Nobody with any skin in the game. |
I would think keeping one's job might put a little pressure on those that deal with union negotiations? At least as much in the public sector as in the private sector (barring direct owners).
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Hacksaw
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3528
Location: Golden CO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| gen x tele wrote: |
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What department of the goverment is that? 
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gen x tele
Joined: 06 Feb 2009
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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Progressive
Bureau of
Sanctimony
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Hacksaw
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3528
Location: Golden CO
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| gen x tele wrote: | Progressive
Bureau of
Sanctimony
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Ah sooooooo......
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chugach001
Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 820
Location: So. Vermont
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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| Grant wrote: | | Sugarloafer wrote: | | Nobody with any skin in the game. |
I would think keeping one's job might put a little pressure on those that deal with union negotiations? At least as much in the public sector as in the private sector (barring direct owners). |
I'm trying to picture that - keeping your job from threat of whom? This might not be accurate but I think it goes something like this; You're Secretary of Transportation for a state (not NJ or Wisc). You report to the Governor. The road worker union wants more money. You want to "do well at your job" and the Governor wants to get re-elected. You have to balance giving in to the union demands with some abstract fear of public funding?
Compare that to the owner of a trucking company facing a union bargaining order? By a factor of 100, I just don't see any comparison.
But, taking into account your statement about (barring direct owners) we could look at a large public company. Unlike our public official, they would call in "union negotiators" who are extremely well paid modern day union busters. And it's a fair fight as both sides are represented by specialists who are excellent at what they do. Again, the public official is, IMO, a paper tiger. I may be wrong about this but can't see where there is a balanced dynamic in these negotiations.
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stevesliva
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 10286
Location: SEA
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| One particular public sector union-- teachers unions-- negotiate with the school board and superintendent and have their raises voted on by taxpayers in many, many districts. If you think there's no incentives to negotiate well on both sides there, you're mistaken. |
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satsuma
Joined: 08 Feb 2005
Posts: 3368
Location: Baton Rouge for a while
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| Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Hacksaw wrote: | | gen x tele wrote: |
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What department of the goverment is that? |
As Otis would say, that's the legislature (pick your legislature, LA is good enough for me).
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Hacksaw
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 3528
Location: Golden CO
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| satsuma wrote: | | Hacksaw wrote: | | gen x tele wrote: |
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What department of the goverment is that? |
As Otis would say, that's the legislature (pick your legislature, LA is good enough for me). |
I'm sorry which one is the big O???? 
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seki
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 6386
Location: Gone
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Hacksaw wrote: | | satsuma wrote: |
As Otis would say, that's the legislature (pick your legislature, LA is good enough for me). |
I'm sorry which one is the big O???? |
Orin Hatch is the one in the middle... |
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Grant
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 8583
Location: Firmly planted
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Who do Gov't Employee Unions Negotiate Against? |
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| chugach001 wrote: | I'm trying to picture that - keeping your job from threat of whom? This might not be accurate but I think it goes something like this; You're Secretary of Transportation for a state (not NJ or Wisc). You report to the Governor. The road worker union wants more money. You want to "do well at your job" and the Governor wants to get re-elected. You have to balance giving in to the union demands with some abstract fear of public funding?
Compare that to the owner of a trucking company facing a union bargaining order? By a factor of 100, I just don't see any comparison.
But, taking into account your statement about (barring direct owners) we could look at a large public company. Unlike our public official, they would call in "union negotiators" who are extremely well paid modern day union busters. And it's a fair fight as both sides are represented by specialists who are excellent at what they do. Again, the public official is, IMO, a paper tiger. I may be wrong about this but can't see where there is a balanced dynamic in these negotiations.
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How about this - you're a VP of HR at a public college. The operations are all unionized. You have to negotiate on behalf of the college for the next 3 year contract. If you blow it, the president of the college has the right to fire your ass. Any incentive?
And no, public officials don't always call in 'union negotiators'.
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vdrifter11
Joined: 09 Dec 2011
Posts: 2034
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| Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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Since when are all negotiations "against" ? The proper, civil term is "with". If you work for a gov agency, then your boss is the gov agency and cluster fk in the capitol.
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