[snojones]

I attempted to get some answers in a previous thread but never got one. After reading 14 pages filled with a lot of "Mine is bigger that yours"...... I still don't know the answer. So I will attempt to ask it again.

Before I got modern Tele gear I used to do a lot of boot glisaiding for yucks in the summer. I learned early on how to make an instant self arrest. Practice, practice, practice. On more that one occasion my ax saved my ass because I had practiced the drill. Unfortunately there is no "Freedom of the Hills" to teach me the effective use a Whippet for self arrest. Consequently, I am a bit confused as the application to Whippets.

With an ice ax in hand it was easy to quickly get into the arrest position. By the time my upper body hit the ground I was usually in the arrest position. With Whippets how do you keep the unused ski pole out of the way as you roll into arrest position. Do you have to remove your non-ax wrist strap and just accept that you likely could loose a pole when you grab for the shaft/handle? How do you get you ax hand into position atop the ax blade? Do you just hold on to the ski grip instead? Will that provide enough grip to keep the pick driven into the snow if I don't stop instantly? Will a Whippet really take the force of my 220 lb body if I attempt to pull up on the ski pole shaft to increase braking? Should I be using 2 Whippets and just hold the grips as I jam the picks into the snow. NO PULL on the shafts at all? Is the Whippet more of ascent tool than an arrest tool?

I used to practice all the fall positions with my ax.... head first, feet first, right side and wrong side arrests. With a Whippet practice seems complicated by having an ax handle that it 4 feet long! Having already bent a number of collapsing ski pole shafts by falling on them, will I have to destroy more ski poles to practice self arrest ? I own a Whippet, have practiced a bit, and have puzzled much over these questions. So far I have been unable to find instructions as to how to deal with these incumbent problems. I am hesitant to just make up an answer on my own, so PLEASE illuminate me.

[Charlie H]

I have arrested two falls (yeah, I have taken a spill...) over the years with a whippet. Both times in my excitement to get skiing I failled to fully clean out my toe attachment to my Dynafit bindings and it released in a steep chute. It is pretty much automatic in getting the Whippet pick in and of course you want to do it ASAP. You do not have time to do much more than simply reach out and put the pick in the snow with the hand holding that ski pole. The chutes were 35-40 degrees; one with soft corn snow (took longer to stop) and one with firm snow.

[James]

I don't know if I can answer all your questions but will do my best in explaining what I do.

First you did not ask this but if you are using a whippet I think you should know what it was primarily designed for. This is my opinion on what it is good for and Andrew can feel free to correct me if this was not his primary intent when he designed it.

I use a whippet mostly when kick stepping up a 35 -45 degree slope with crampons. The most likely thing for me would be for my feet to slip and I would simply put the whippet straight in the snow with the hand that is holding it. I could do this very quickly and much quicker then I could flip an axe and get both hands on it and arrest. If needed I would drop the other pole and put this hand on top like a normal axe. It is most likely from this position I could just jam the whippet in with one had. If you had two whippets you would just jam each in with one hand. I never wear pole straps in the back country in this situation so that is not a problem for me. There is a good chance if it is real steep I have already used the whippet by jamming it in on each step while climbing. It is my opinion that in the above use a whippet is more practical then an ice axe. If for some reason I was climbing like this and flipped backwards I am really, really going to wish I had an axe. So yes IMHO the whippet is more of an ascent tool then an arrest tool and two would be better than one but I make do with one. May be if next year’s snow is like last year’s I will start to use two but I think for where I ski one is fine or I will switch to an axe.

If you want to use the whippet like an ice axe in all the other head down hill, back up or back down type falls I would use it the same as an ice axe one hand on the whippet handle and one hand on top. In this type of situation a whippet would not be near as useful as an ice axe since the pick is shorter and your hands are too close together to get any leverage on the shaft. I think if you tried to use a whippet like an axe with one hand on the pole and one on top it would bend or snap in half. To be honest I have not spent a lot of time seeing how far I could slide my hand down the shaft of a whippet to see if it would bend or break.

I very rarely use a whippet while skinning. If it is flat enough to skin even with ski campons on I am not usually worried about falling and sliding.

If I find myself skiing in a no fall situation I will use the whippet as a ski pole just in case I need it if I fall. In this case the whippet is better for the skiing part but would not be near as good as an axe if you fell. I am always very uncomfortable in these situations. First no fall skiing should make you uncomfortable if that is the correct word plus the fact that a sharp pick is in your hands at the exact level of all your vital organs should cross you mind.

So bottom line IHMO for most of the things you describe an axe would be a much better tool. I still use an axe for anything real sketchy but that is very rare. I ski a lot and I am not a beginner but I am more of a skier then someone always out mountaineering with skis on.

When I have the whippet I am mentally aware of its strengths and limitations and ski and climb accordingly. This goes for all safety gear.

[Carbo]

yes, that last thread was train wreck. I'll give my humble answers below. ymmv, but this works for me.

[HOTUNA]

[Carbo]

I just thought of something else.
Maybe the whole whippet debate is kind of like the helmet debate (ugh!).

I wear a helmet while skiing, not to protect me from life threatening falls, but to protect me from minor injury. If I fall hard enough to do serious damage that little brain bucket isn't going to do much. But, it will protect me from minor damage that could otherwise put a big damper on a good ski day.

Same with whippets. If you're going to take a huge slide for life in crazy-exposed terrain, a Whippet might not be up to the job. But it will certainly keep you from tumbling down a ski line, getting a minor injury, and/or ruining your ski experience and hurting your pride.

Where that line is when you cross from "whippet terrain" into "ax terrain" will be different for every skier depending on skill level, acceptable risk, and group goals.
For my skill level and acceptable risk level whippets are a great tool.

[bergbryce]

The handle of a whippet is already in your hand, you jam it into the snow immediately to arrest. It's not an axe, so it requires it's own methods, but the concept is similar.
If you get one, try an experiment.... Boot up something kind of steep that is still solid without a whippet, with probably just your ski poles. Then do the exact same thing substituting a whippet for a ski pole.

In the above scenario, I know I feel much better with that arrest device in my hand instead of a regular ski pole. YMMV.

[TrainingHeels]

are you replacing your ice axe with a whippet? If you're climbing something steep and icy enough to warrant a self arrest on the ascent, why don't you use your axe AND whippet. Four wheel drive...

Arrest with the axe on the way up, arrest with the whippet on the way down.

I've found no technique to ski arrests with the whippet, your body does it for you and it's quick and effective. You freak out, punch the snow, and stop.

[telemarkerSteve]

So do people not use the strap on the whippet pole?

I do. My main reason being a whippet that I found driven 3" into some ice in a couloir about 500 feet above it's unhappy owner.

I'd be interested in hearing the case against having the whippet pole strap on. The usual avi burial risk issues? Other factors?
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I believe it was Gandhi who said: "You must be the turn that you wish to see in the snow"

[Bob T]

FIFY.

[James]

[J]

straps have use here, not an avy situation, having them quickly ripped from a loose grip is deadly though. <30 degree slopes can be quick trouble if slips are not quickly 'tended'.

many a fall with skis on starts or results with head-downhill...a scary start to a ride. being able to deal with this head-downhill and skis-on is KEY. Straps-on helps in the chaos.

That said, I almost never use straps. Butt Crusty conditions piss me off when I have to do an up-hill pole retrieve, then I'll use straps. Kayak-shoulders are now a life problem. NO straps ever pretty much my thing.

having a change of clothes may be important too in no-fall zones.
The G-Man was mostly disrobed by the time his ride was over with dual whippets...both of them broke, his pants mostly gone, coat ripped off, underlayer went away too. Blood out of all orifices! He lived.
Another Cordova Local after a fall with out whippets or ax said his clothes were gone and his guts didn't quite come out from abrasion but they were showing just below the skin. He was only kinda joking.
Others are not alive. The Coast Guard gets cred for many a mountain rescue/recovery in Coastal Ak.

Get whippets or an ax if you wanna ski corn.

[Carbo]

[pin!head]

I also find them valuable on creek and avy debris crossings navagagting up onto log jams and sinking it grip deep into the bank, soft wood, or hooking a branch to pull through and awkward move.

Even weaving through 50deg vine maple/alder (mixed/aid climbing)....priceless.
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Friends don't let friends ski groomers.

[Tele Till You're Smelly]

Carbo's long post is great, read that.

Pole straps: I use my whippet all winter BC skiing, because I find it useful for all sorts of things from cleaning snow out of bindings, to flipping up heel levers, to cleaning snow off tops of skis, to grabbing a tree trunk un a steep switchback. I don't have the strap on then, it isn't going anywhere in the powder. But in the spring when I think I may need the whippet for its intended purpose, I use the strap- I don't want it sliding down hundreds of feet of frozen corn or pulled out of my hand in a self arrest. You can say "don't drop your damn pole" but I find that some things are easier said than always done, ymmv.
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Reluctant enthusiast, part-time crusader, half-hearted fanatic