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zander
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 104
Location: South Lake Tahoe
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 Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:10 am Post subject: the thrive movie |
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this movie lead to several shocking moments of what seems like understanding - and it gives me hope. Gamble even reconciles liberal and conservative viewpoints at the end of the film.
Seriously worth watching:
http://www.thrivemovement.com/the_movie |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Zander - Thrive is an interesting and thought provoking video. My questions about where it was heading were answered when Ludwig Von Mises was unwrapped.
At the core, Thrive is Von Mises. Nothing wrong with that.
If you agree with some/most/all of Von Mises' philosophy, you'll probably be doing backflips and somersaults while high 5'ing those around you by the end of the video.
If you're tent isn't pitched in or near the Von Mises camp, the video can serve as an informative view of what the world looks like from that side of the fence.
If you have no clue as to who Von Mises was nor of his philosphy and come away with a warm fuzzy feeling, you've just been dosed.
Thanks for putting up the thread. This could be an interesting discussion, or it take that other road. We do have a choice. |
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
Posts: 15744
Location: Ponderosa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:51 pm Post subject: |
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The video clip is the usual mix of mysticism, populism and bits of interesting and seemingly inexplicable fact that shouts "bullshit!"
As to Van Mises, I know nothing about him and know even less after surfing a few websites, such as the Van Mises Institute, that seems designed to impress with its scholarly approach and inscrutable as to what substance lurks beneath. I learned, for instance, that the Austrian School of Economics basically takes credit for founding the study of economics.
Presumably, someone familiar with and supportive of Van Mises can explain in a simple paragraph how his economic theory varies from mainstream economic theory and what this means in practical terms.
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skifreeK
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nope. Still looking for what distinguishes this economic theory from basic capitalism. Economic darwinism (i.e. raw capitalism) with a fancy set of clothes?
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LeapinGnome
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
Posts: 786
Location: SLC
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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It's got Illuminati, crop circles, UFO's and unlimited energy sources brought to us by Shadowy Men from a Shadowy Planet and being kept secret by oil companies. What could be better?
Plus the trailer features Deepak Chopra who is one of my favorite quacks from quacksville with a heapin' helpin' of quacksauce.
"It's burned into the atomic structure, in some extraordinary way!"
Nassim Haramein
So is this Nassim..
Good stuff, really good stuff.
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twopass
Joined: 07 Dec 2004
Posts: 6512
Location: Behind the wheel
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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The title alone had me reaching for my tinfoil.
This is why humans are unable to effect change in this modern world.
They're so deeply in denial about having to get down to the nitty-gritty they'd rather mentally masturbate to this "thrive" kinda' horse shit.
Hey zander, smoke alotta' pot, do you?
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"Always remember, a cat looks down on man, a dog looks up to man, but a pig will look man right in the eye and see his equal." |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 11426
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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http://www.slate.com/articles/business/moneybox/2012/01/what_is_austrian_economics_and_why_is_ron_paul_keep_obsessed_with_it_.html
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...But “Austrians” in Paul’s sense refers to something narrower, specifically the thought of Ludwig Von Mises and his student Murray Rothbard.
It is a form of capitalism that is even more libertarian and anarchic than that espoused by many libertarians. Rothbard‘s followers, most prominently longtime Paul associate and founder of the Mises Institute Lew Rockwell, have been waging a decades-long war against the Koch brothers and the more mainstream form of libertarianism the Kochs represent.
“Austrian economics,” in this sense, goes beyond standard-issue free market thinking in a number of ways. Most notably, it seeks to build a strong ethical case for strict libertarianism without admitting that this would lead to any practical problems whatsoever.
Therefore, along with rejecting the legitimacy of any intervention to protect the poor or regulate anything (a position much more extreme than even the Hayek of Road to Serfdom), Austrians reject the idea that there is anything at all the government can do to stabilize macroeconomic fluctuations.
This, to be clear, is different from the mainstream Republican view that the stimulus bill enacted by Congress in 2009 and signed into law by President Obama was wasteful or ineffective.
Austrians also believe that cutting taxes to boost economic activity doesn’t work either.
And they disagree with Milton Friedman that appropriate monetary stimulus by the Federal Reserve could have prevented the Great Depression.
Indeed, they disagree with even the least controversial of all stabilization measures, the ordinary tweaking of short-term interest rates that all modern central banks use to try to prevent either inflation or deflation.
In the view of the Austrians, practically every economic policy pursued by the federal government and Federal Reserve is a mistake that distorts markets.
Rather than curing recessions, claim Austrians, stimulative policies cause them by producing unsustainable bubbles.
The way this works, according to the Austrians, is that artificially low interest rates spur “malinvestment” in unworkable enterprises that inevitably crash when the stimulus is withdrawn. This is an emotionally appealing idea, positing that the suffering of a bust is a kind of cosmic payback for the boom. But it doesn’t make much logical sense. For one thing, as George Mason University economist Bryan Caplan, who’s ideologically sympathetic to the Austrians, points out, it’s hard to understand why businesspeople would be so easily duped in this way.
If Ron Paul and Ludwig von Mises know that cheap money can’t last forever, why don’t private investors? Why wouldn’t firms avoid making the supposedly dumb investments?
Ironically, the Austrians have replicated an error from the crudest forms of postwar Keynesianism—the failure to consider the role of expectations feedback in macroeconomic policy. |
All the new age whoo-whoo fluff was the hook, the bait-n-switch to Von Mises was the catch to net a new school of fish in support of the cause. |
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Baaahb
Joined: 07 Jan 2005
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Location: Ponderosa
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the clarification. One more sad window into the tragic weakness of human nature....the tendency to believe that there are simple answers to complex questions....and its ironic twin....that it takes an advanced degree in some "science" to understand how that simple answer works.
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LeapinGnome
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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The Austrians? Hardly.
Gamble is a new age fluff peddler posing as a purveyor of fanciful economic policy.
Got some basic physics? How many mistakes can you catch in this scatterbrained spiel?
http://www.thrivemovement.com/foster-gamble-free-energy-what-you-can-do-help.blog
Film review: Why ‘Thrive’ is best avoided
by Rob Hopkins
"So here’s the film’s argument in a nutshell. Humanity is killing itself and the world around it because free energy sources are being deliberately kept from us, cures for cancer are being kept from us, all because we are controlled by an invisible elite who want to create a ‘new world order’ to control us all and prevent us from thriving. So let’s look at some of the film’s central arguments in turn."
http://www.energybulletin.net/stories/2012-01-10/film-review-why-%E2%80%98thrive%E2%80%99-best-avoided
Hagbard Celine wold be proud.
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the Austrians. If you'll go for the one, the other will follow. New Age is old news. The election of Sen. Rand Paul shows the Austrians are marching into new ground w/2016 the goal. Gamble may be a NA fluffer, but he could have done all that w/o a whiff of Von Mises. imho, of course...ymmv. 
From your link:
| Quote: | | One of the things put forward, alongside local food, renewables and so on, is “little or no taxes”. Eh? Where did that come from?! Ah, now we get into the real agenda of the film, a kind of New Age libertarianism, a sort of cosmic Tea Party, and it all starts to get deeply alarming. |
And that is exactly my point. |
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LeapinGnome
Joined: 16 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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Good point.
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| LeapinGnome wrote: | | Good point. |
Thanks.
As interesting as the flower of Austrian Economics is, the truly interesting stuff is at its root.
theocratic libertarianism |
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zander
Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 104
Location: South Lake Tahoe
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks for replying. gives me new perspectives.... |
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skifreeK
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 11426
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:29 am Post subject: |
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| Zander, thanks for putting up the thread and sparking a bit of discussion. Don't let the typically "direct" approach of wot responses keep you from putting your views out there. Were you aware of the Von Mises/Ron Paul connection before or after the video? Are you are Paul supporter? |
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