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bigdamo
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Xinjiang,China
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hutguy
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7115
Location: Breckenridge CO
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 Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:11 pm Post subject: Re: Avalanche in Pakistan |
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Not good. As big a loss and tragedy for these men's families and loved ones and anyone one who has lost a friend/loved one to an avalanche.
There was a story in (I think) Outside Magazine some years ago about Kashmir and the conditions the Indian and Pakistani military exist in.
Pretty nuts. 
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Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
Shakyamuni Buddha. The diamond sutra |
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bigdamo
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Xinjiang,China
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I am told the dogs don't live in these high altitudes for any length of time they will have to bring them in.Doesn't look good. |
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robrox
Joined: 20 Oct 2005
Posts: 17767
Location: following Diogenes, but the ba$tard threw away the lamp so I'm just stumbling along in the dark!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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The radio story this AM indicated it was an extremely forceful avalanche....it seems like the offices, huts and barracks were not just buried, but crushed and buried. Any hope? Yes, slight hope.
My condolences to the bereaved.
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"Moderate is not the new Low" - Chris Joosen, USFS Lead Snow Ranger (Tuckerman Ravine, White Mountains National Forest) |
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elk-tamer
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 2909
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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this attitude:
| Quote: | | Although the region is prone to avalanches, the general said, they tend to occur in "forward bases" at higher altitude, where only 10 or 20 troops are located. |
might have something to do with it. If your risk intolerance says that losing 10-20 is acceptable, every once in a while a bigger event it going to happen.
The Indians use avalanche planning as part of their military strategy. They don't do it properly, but at least they're going in the right direction. |
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SteveH
Joined: 25 May 2006
Posts: 790
Location: Boulder, Colorado
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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The Siachen Conflict has been going on for over 25 years now. More soldiers die from the elements than actual combat. There are no signs that this conflict will ever be resolved soon. At work, we have a copy of the old DMA TPC map of the area and it is incredibly rugged. What is amazing is that the fight is over a bunch of uninhabitable rock, snow and ice but it is the gateway to some significant destination peaks for mountaineers. I don't know about the ski potential though  |
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stevesliva
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 10174
Location: SEA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:44 pm Post subject: |
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| elk-tamer wrote: | If your risk intolerance says that losing 10-20 is acceptable, every once in a while a bigger event it going to happen.
The Indians use avalanche planning as part of their military strategy. They don't do it properly, but at least they're going in the right direction. |
But if the other guys are willing to occupy and area you vacate due to avalanche danger or extreme weather, they get to keep it? |
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polemonium
Joined: 23 Dec 2010
Posts: 414
Location: in a subaru down by the dry wash
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:40 pm Post subject: Re: Avalanche in Pakistan |
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| hutguy wrote: |
There was a story in (I think) Outside Magazine some years ago about Kashmir and the conditions the Indian and Pakistani military exist in.
Pretty nuts. |
Yes. Here's the article, I remember reading it when it came out, good photos too: http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/123274783.html?page=all
Although not as high altitude, the area of the Dolomites that Italy and Austria fought over in WW I had mountain fortifications, outposts being lost to avalanches, etc. I visited a town museum that showed photos and diaries from two residents who had fought there. Crazy, pointless, nasty stuff. |
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gpp33
Joined: 08 Mar 2010
Posts: 413
Location: Longmont, Co
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| I wonder if they ever use slides as a war tactic. Seems if they are dumb enough to station 100 troops at the base of an Avy path one could take advantage of that given the right snow conditions. |
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bristlecone
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 339
Location: Singapore
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elk-tamer
Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 2909
Location: Calgary
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| stevesliva wrote: |
But if the other guys are willing to occupy and area you vacate due to avalanche danger or extreme weather, they get to keep it? |
I have no idea. My guess would be that whole area is only kept by military presence, and if it's vacated it would be lost.
They really don't seem to understand avalanches though. From my very brief exposure to the process, I got the impression they're spending a shiat load on figuring out snow depth, and treating that as the only thing to worry about. |
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ATScott
Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 1032
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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Sad. Would be good if India would offer to help. Maybe they have.
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formerly TeleScott |
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hutguy
Joined: 06 Dec 2004
Posts: 7115
Location: Breckenridge CO
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:20 am Post subject: |
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| elk-tamer wrote: |
They really don't seem to understand avalanches though. From my very brief exposure to the process, I got the impression they're spending a shiat load on figuring out snow depth, and treating that as the only thing to worry about. |
They've been living in this environment for a long time. I'd guess they do have a pretty good idea about avalanches. One of the stories I read suggests this was just a monster one they didn't think would run as far as it did. That, plus acceptance of risk in what is more or less a war zone is different than how most recreationalist's would see it.
_________________
Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
Shakyamuni Buddha. The diamond sutra |
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ghostofcarl
Joined: 22 Jul 2010
Posts: 6624
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 12:35 am Post subject: |
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| hutguy wrote: | | They've been living in this environment for a long time. I'd guess they do have a pretty good idea about avalanches. |
I'd highly doubt that based on experiences with the Indian military. Many of them never experienced freezing temps, much less snow and high mountains before they were stationed in the north. Poorly equipped and provisioned and poorly trained. |
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bigdamo
Joined: 02 Jun 2009
Posts: 61
Location: Xinjiang,China
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| Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| hutguy wrote: | | elk-tamer wrote: |
They really don't seem to understand avalanches though. From my very brief exposure to the process, I got the impression they're spending a shiat load on figuring out snow depth, and treating that as the only thing to worry about. |
They've been living in this environment for a long time. I'd guess they do have a pretty good idea about avalanches. One of the stories I read suggests this was just a monster one they didn't think would run as far as it did. That, plus acceptance of risk in what is more or less a war zone is different than how most recreationalist's would see it. |
I wonder how much they know about avalanches not much me thinks.The highway from China to Pakistan was hit by a monster avalanche a year or so ago it was closed for quite a while.This highway is the only road into Pakistan carrying large amounts of freight.This must of hurt as this highway is only open for 5 or 6 months a year normally.
Here in Xinjiang(close to Pakistan) they know nothing about avalanches they only worry about heavy snow depth closing roads.
There weather reports are woefully lacking info doubt it would be much better over the border in Pakistan. |
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