I don't disagree that they didn't make any improvements, but I think an important point is being overlooked. Namely that the nature of telemark skiing changed and some "active" bindings changed with it. I agree, Danno, my Work Stinx enormous powder boards that are 88 under foot mated with T9's were my dream set up in 2002. Back then it was faux pas to mount a regular alpine ski for anything other than a rank beginner. And there was little gear to drive a heavier and stiffer ski. The emphasis on freeheel skiing in that era was using the resort to "practice" and stay in shape while bc skiing was the real deal. Now the only differentiation is between a bc ski and lift access oriented mainly due to weight, not to mention that AT bindings are lighter and more reliable than any tele binding. My theory for years has been that G3 screwed the pooch by charging too much for their replacement parts. My experience and overall feel was not that the Targa was any less reliable than other bindings but that people were already pissed that their binding broke and then getting gouged didn't make it better. It was very painful to equip oneself with the necessary parts to put a field repair kit together. They should have picked one proprietary piece, like the toe bale, and charged nearly the same price as the whole binding for it other than for a warranty issue then sold the other parts for cost plus handling through their dealers. My $.02 having worked for a dealer that carried a demo fleet of their gear. Regardless, bagging on reliability is all together a different issue than saying I can't ski that binding. I would be the first to say I drop steeper lines with more aplomb on my Axls, but that doesn't mean I can't ski a Targa. It will always hold a special place in modern tele history in my book.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11175 Location: People's Republic of A**holia
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 4:55 pm Post subject:
Oh, my issues with it aren't how it skied. It skied great (back then) and I could still rip on it now (as much as I can rip, period ). My issues are 100% reliability. G3 knew about all the problems, and their stance was always "our binding is more field serviceable than any other". That's bullshit IMO. Especially when the failure I had was not really field serviceable. Other binding manufacturers, when confronted with a pattern of breakage problems, have generally sought to fix them. _________________ "anecdotes are fine assbaggery is not"
"But of course to Telemark is just one function of ski gear, but to have fun is the other. If I so much want to make Parallel turns all day long, I shall do this as well"
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2367 Location: Colorado
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:07 pm Post subject:
hdiddy wrote:
I could've sworn I saw something that said that the O1 now has a 6 screw mount and some improved plastics. Shoulda did that like 6 years ago. They'll prob stay in the boot biz longer than in the binding biz.
The number of green bindings seems pretty big from a standing in the lift line observation.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2367 Location: Colorado
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:25 pm Post subject:
Danno wrote:
That's why everyone bags on G3. Because they didn't make any effort to improve a binding LONG after it was very dated; so long as the sheeple kept buying it, they were happy.
The wonderful thing about Targas is they give 90% of the performance of the most expensive bindings out there for less than $150. On a performance per dollar ratio, those guys and the Voile Hardwires are tough to beat. As somebody who skis a ton of days, I can justify the extra 200-300 bucks for specific features. Still, our snow pack has been so low that I have been playing with lots of my older rock skis. A narrowish ski with the G3 binding works great. They are actually better tools for the current snow than all my Chugach snow depth monsters of today.
It will be sad when all the cheaper bindings are discontinued and only $300-400 bindings exist. I think there should be a reasonably affordable route to get into tele.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 11175 Location: People's Republic of A**holia
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:33 pm Post subject:
skibum wrote:
Danno wrote:
That's why everyone bags on G3. Because they didn't make any effort to improve a binding LONG after it was very dated; so long as the sheeple kept buying it, they were happy.
The wonderful thing about Targas is they give 90% of the performance of the most expensive bindings out there for less than $150. On a performance per dollar ratio, those guys and the Voile Hardwires are tough to beat. As somebody who skis a ton of days, I can justify the extra 200-300 bucks for specific features. Still, our snow pack has been so low that I have been playing with lots of my older rock skis. A narrowish ski with the G3 binding works great. They are actually better tools for the current snow than all my Chugach snow depth monsters of today.
It will be sad when all the cheaper bindings are discontinued and only $300-400 bindings exist. I think there should be a reasonably affordable route to get into tele.
Good point. But I would buy the Hardwire 1000 times over before buying a Targa. Because the hardwires are durable. _________________ "anecdotes are fine assbaggery is not"
"But of course to Telemark is just one function of ski gear, but to have fun is the other. If I so much want to make Parallel turns all day long, I shall do this as well"
It will be sad when all the cheaper bindings are discontinued and only $300-400 bindings exist. I think there should be a reasonably affordable route to get into tele.
I don't think we have to worry about that as long as Voile is in business. There will always be Mountaineers and Hardwires.
Joined: 07 Aug 2006 Posts: 2305 Location: Minnesnowta
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:51 pm Post subject:
jmedslc wrote:
Stoked on the 22 Designs Vice!
As I've posted before, the AXL skis even better than the Hammerhead - similar HH feel, but more power and smoother flex.
I'm very glad to see that they're taking the successful AXL design and applying it to a more affordable non-touring version. This should sell really well! I sure hope it uses the same mounting pattern.
This sure makes sense from a production cost angle. More interchanable parts means less inventory and assembly efficiency. This should translate in to a better value for consumers. Kudos to the boys at 22D. _________________ “I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you different.” Kurt Vonnegut
This sure makes sense from a production cost angle. More interchanable parts means less inventory and assembly efficiency. This should translate in to a better value for consumers. Kudos to the boys at 22D.
Honestly, it makes good business sense to at least make the HH seem obsolete. Too many people happy to pick up blue bindings and replace the parts as they fail. I have two now blue-n-black bindings from ~2004 and ~2006, to go with 4 plates and an Axl. There's just a lot of used inventory out there competing with new binding sales. The great news is... yay plate resale value.
Mammut's new airbag line is damn sexy. Fully featured packs in 18, 22, 30, 35, and 45L sizes, as well as an 18L pack with a built-in back protector, an ultralight 30L pack (well, as ultralight as an airbag can be), and a 28L short torso length pack, all with a removable airbag system that can be swapped from pack to pack. A single pack (even the 45L) with all the necessary stuff will still come in under a grand. $625 for the airbag and cartridge, plus $200-250 for a pack body.
ABS has arguably the best/safest airbag system, but their pack designs haven't exactly been the best. Dakine, North Face, and several others are offering pack bodies that can be zipped onto the ABS Vario airbag system. I only was able to look closely at the Dakine packs, and they are nice, clean, well executed pack designs (28L and 40L options). These will all be more in the $1300 range though.
BD O1 goes to a six screw mounting pattern (different from both the HH/Axl pattern and the G3 Ascent pattern, of course) and gets new paint. Plastic is the same as far as I know. Carbon Megawatt based off the old Mega shape but 2lbs lighter, new ski called the Revert which is sidewall construction, lightweight paulownia wood core, and a shape similar to the Amp but 95mm underfoot. Looks fun. Efficient series boots get new paint and upgrades to the liners. New Gold Label glue is temperature and pressure sensitive (sticks better in the cold and if you press it onto the ski, easier to pull apart without cheat sheets). The Ascensions have a new plush that supposedly gives them much better glide with the same grip. Glidelit Mix just has new colors and the new glue.
Scarpa's new Maestrale RS look awesome. Put my foot in one and flexed it, and they are stout, but with the light weight and huge range of motion of the original (which stays in the line). There's also a polyurethane version of the regular Maestrale with a non-moldable liner that comes in at $499 for cheapskates. T2 Eco and TX just get new paint and some tweaked straps and stuff, no real changes.
Voile has the Charger BC as discussed in the other thread, other than that just new graphics and a new topsheet material for the Vector, Vector BC, and Charger. All Switchbacks get some minor tweaks to materials to make them stronger. The real news is that the Drifter is gone, replaced by a new ski called the Buster or Fillibuster. Sidewall construction, burly, 118mm underfoot, tip and tail rocker and early taper/splay tip and tail. They are shooting for under 8lbs. Gorgeous wood grain graphic. Can't wait to ski it. They also acquired Century Snowboards and hired the designer to completely redesign the splitboard line. Sidewalls, licensing Never Summer's mustache rocker, beautiful graphics, and a women's specific board. Killer. _________________ mediocre kneedropper
BD O1 goes to a six screw mounting pattern (different from both the HH/Axl pattern and the G3 Ascent pattern, of course) and gets new paint. Plastic is the same as far as I know.
Bump with one pull quote! This has been buried, and it's news.
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). My issues are 100% reliability. G3 knew about all the problems, and their stance was always "our binding is more field serviceable than any other". That's bullshit IMO. Especially when the failure I had was not really field serviceable. Other binding manufacturers, when confronted with a pattern of breakage problems, have generally sought to fix them.
