Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Posts: 7012 Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:04 pm Post subject:
I don't know that I can help you other then to say be careful what advise you listen to. Most here would say you could not drive a 98 mm waist ski with a T-4 so if they don't read your post carefully they will likely recommend a much stiffer and taller boot then you might care for.
Also what 115 mm ski, what length, how big, how advanced and aggressive you are would be very important in what boot you would like.
In short more accurate input gets more accurate out put. Some times
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 3819 Location: The Death Star
Posted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 11:13 pm Post subject:
My old T-TRace boots were very stiff in the belows at first -- but after twenty days or so the bellows softened up. "Active" bindings like HammerHeads / AXLs facilitate flexing the belows -- tall boots + active bindings will feel very different than T4s and whatever binding you are using with them.
Calf constriction should mostly be a question of proper boot fitting and molding the liners. But again it will have a different feel than what you are used to.
You will likely need to make some adjustments to your technique to adapt to taller and stiffer boot and bindings -- give it at least a few hundred turns before making any descisions.
Joined: 11 Dec 2004 Posts: 937 Location: Putney, Vermont
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:03 am Post subject:
Your Garas are old. I think the boots, and liners, have improved a bit since those were made. Try some of the new boots, they might fit OK.
If your calf muscles are unusually large and your feet small, you might fit better in the woman's model.
Joined: 14 Feb 2006 Posts: 427 Location: Juneau, AK
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:56 am Post subject:
Why not try the T2 Eco's? I've been squeezing the life out of an old pair of T2's and will upgrade to the Eco's next year (my skis are 90mm and 108mm at their waists). Or, you can probably find a pair of Synergy's on eBay, with some patience.[/quote]
Joined: 20 Apr 2005 Posts: 2890 Location: CorVegas, OR
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 11:43 am Post subject:
Randy wrote:
My old T-TRace boots were very stiff in the belows at first -- but after twenty days or so the bellows softened up. "Active" bindings like HammerHeads / AXLs facilitate flexing the belows -- tall boots + active bindings will feel very different than T4s and whatever binding you are using with them.
Calf constriction should mostly be a question of proper boot fitting and molding the liners. But again it will have a different feel than what you are used to.
You will likely need to make some adjustments to your technique to adapt to taller and stiffer boot and bindings -- give it at least a few hundred turns before making any descisions.
Randy, Well Said. You are awesome! _________________ Friends don't let friends ski groomers.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2274 Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: Medium height boots ,suggestions?
polarbear wrote:
Hi!
I would need some suggestions of which boots would suit me!
I own scarpa t4 and garmont gara,
and i mostly use the t4, all up to 98mm skis
Everytime i put on the garas, i use them a couple of hours at most
They just feel like they constrict my calvemuscle and disturb the feeling of movement in footjoint!
And my new skis for next season are 115mm underfoot ,so it starts to feel pretty ridiculous with t4:s!
What i want is something that lies in between these two in height
and not to stiff to bend at the toecup!
The only one i can think of is syner-g ,and that one seem discontinued?
So suggestions please!
I think it would be a big mistake to undersize your tele boots as you move up to a 115 underfoot ski. You really need a powerful stout boot to effectively drive skis this big especially when the snow is less than perfect powder. I would look at BD Push, Scarpa T1's and the Garmont modern version of these. Or, you might find your skis will ski you . _________________ Just Say No To Groomed Snow
Joined: 08 Dec 2004 Posts: 7703 Location: Berkeley, CA /Tahoe
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:25 pm Post subject:
polarbear wrote:
Jim wrote:
Why not go to a shop and try on several brands/models of boots?
Well, you would be happy if a shop carried one single model where i live,
T2 eco's , i have only seen that one on picture, aint the t2 eco same height as garas and old t1 (black/yellow)?
Not exactly, I don't think you're going to find a boot much lower than the T2 Eco that isn't a T4.
Quote:
Someone who tried most boots on the market , that could care to list them ranged from lowest to highest (discontinued included)
1: T4
2........?
Blue T2
T2 Eco.
3:syner-g?
4:.......?
5........?
where do you place t2 eco, and the older t2 (blue/3 buckle)
You really should try newer boots, the bellows on the T2 Eco is vastly improved over older models. Even 4 Buckle T1's have a relatively soft bellow flex.
If the bellow flex is right, you will notice the height of the upper much less. Also newer boots have a lot more build in adjustments of where to put the buckles and such so you'll have a better chance of getting a good cuff fit. And you can always grind down a boot, but adding height is not easily done.
Maybe you've got mad skills and only ski in perfect snow, but I'd want at least a T2 Eco to ski anything bigger than 100mm in the waist.
If you have Scarpa Shaped feet, give the T2 Eco a try. Perhaps in the womens version to get more calf room, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You may find some older Crispi boots that are pretty low, I would avoid those. They have a relatively stiff bellow and if you have Scarpa shaped feet it's unlikely Crispi's will work for you. Or at least that has been my experience.
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 20 Location: scandinavia
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: Medium height boots ,suggestions?
Quadzilla wrote:
polarbear wrote:
Hi!
I would need some suggestions of which boots would suit me!
I own scarpa t4 and garmont gara,
and i mostly use the t4, all up to 98mm skis
Everytime i put on the garas, i use them a couple of hours at most
They just feel like they constrict my calvemuscle and disturb the feeling of movement in footjoint!
And my new skis for next season are 115mm underfoot ,so it starts to feel pretty ridiculous with t4:s!
What i want is something that lies in between these two in height
and not to stiff to bend at the toecup!
The only one i can think of is syner-g ,and that one seem discontinued?
So suggestions please!
I think it would be a big mistake to undersize your tele boots as you move up to a 115 underfoot ski. You really need a powerful stout boot to effectively drive skis this big especially when the snow is less than perfect powder. I would look at BD Push, Scarpa T1's and the Garmont modern version of these. Or, you might find your skis will ski you .
The purpose of this thread was to get help sorting out which boots there is that would be somewhere between touring an racing!
I cant see what makes you think i would be interested in new T1 when i own garas ???????
Im not either interested in adapting technicue to higher boots!
I want boots that ends right under my calves .
Im actually doing fine with T4, just wish that they would be stiffer overall, including sole, Never ever felt any reason why a higher boot would have any advantage? I ski 50/50 groomed/offpist
Please spare me more discussions , just help me sort out which boots out there is lower than garas
Edit: Ski info ,Scott aztec 175/punisher 182 carving and scott dozer 185 offpist
7tm power II sti on both
Last edited by polarbear on Sun Apr 22, 2012 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 04 Mar 2011 Posts: 20 Location: scandinavia
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject:
bbense wrote:
polarbear wrote:
Jim wrote:
Why not go to a shop and try on several brands/models of boots?
Well, you would be happy if a shop carried one single model where i live,
T2 eco's , i have only seen that one on picture, aint the t2 eco same height as garas and old t1 (black/yellow)?
Not exactly, I don't think you're going to find a boot much lower than the T2 Eco that isn't a T4.
Quote:
Someone who tried most boots on the market , that could care to list them ranged from lowest to highest (discontinued included)
1: T4
2........?
Blue T2
T2 Eco.
3:syner-g?
4:.......?
5........?
where do you place t2 eco, and the older t2 (blue/3 buckle)
You really should try newer boots, the bellows on the T2 Eco is vastly improved over older models. Even 4 Buckle T1's have a relatively soft bellow flex.
If the bellow flex is right, you will notice the height of the upper much less. Also newer boots have a lot more build in adjustments of where to put the buckles and such so you'll have a better chance of getting a good cuff fit. And you can always grind down a boot, but adding height is not easily done.
Maybe you've got mad skills and only ski in perfect snow, but I'd want at least a T2 Eco to ski anything bigger than 100mm in the waist.
If you have Scarpa Shaped feet, give the T2 Eco a try. Perhaps in the womens version to get more calf room, but I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.
You may find some older Crispi boots that are pretty low, I would avoid those. They have a relatively stiff bellow and if you have Scarpa shaped feet it's unlikely Crispi's will work for you. Or at least that has been my experience.
- Booker C Bense
Thank you bense for very good info!!
About skis, well i have'nt passed 100mm waist yet 2mm left
also i think my skis are fairly easy to drive skis
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 17779 Location: EL/R -6.12, SL/A -8.15 in NW VT and slightly south of the Poutine Curtain
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 1:54 pm Post subject: Re: Medium height boots ,suggestions?
polarbear wrote:
Please spare me more discussions , just help me sort out which boots out there is lower than garas
I suggest that you listen to those discussions. I have used the Gara a half dozen times and I am not completely convinced a stiff low boot will help you as much you think it will.
The Crispi CXA/CXX/CXX2 are stiffer than the t4 and lower than the Gara. I have only done a carpet test with the CXX. However, they may or may not fit your foot shape and Crispi is well known to cause toe pinch/crunch for people that do not have a "Crispi foot".
I find that a stiff boot with a short cuff does not give me the lever required to make the flex feel right. That is subjective.
I have huge calves and find that tall boots cause problems for me if not sized and adjusted correctly. For me this starts with a good heel cup and snug heel retention. I have very narrow heels (extremely wide BOF, high instep, normal ankles and wide toes) so this is a challenge. Next is a correctly shaped and sized lower foot/toe box so that my foot does not move around and is not dependent on the top buckles to keep it in place. The normal ankle and large calf requires that I be able to adjust my boots to have two very different sizes between the two buckles. In many regards I find a four buckle boot or a 3 buckle boot with two cuff buckles to be the best. This way I don't have to crank the top buckle tight. If I do, my feet fall asleep. The lower cuff buckle is the "money" buckle.
You may do well to try a woman's boot with the help of an expert boot fitter. Have you tried loosening the power strap and or top buckle of the Gara? Also, the Gara is a very old boot and there a lot of different boots with different flex characteristics now but with similar superficial features such as height. A boot fitter could also help with expanding the cuff in specific places so it better matches your leg profile. And modern boots also have modern liners. A properly molded liner can help alleviate some of the cuff issues. _________________
Joined: 19 Feb 2011 Posts: 333 Location: Colorado, USA
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:24 pm Post subject:
Polarbear,
You are not alone in your search for lower plastic telemark boots. That is what is working best for me,, perhaps because I spent decades downhilling on leather tele boots and skinny (60-65mm underfoot) metal edged skis, to ski all intermediate groomed slopes and even some expert slopes. I have well established habits of using ankle flex in edging skis -- tall, stiff boots do not allow this, depriving me of an essential (to me) element of ski control. Best yet for me have been Garmont Excursions with thermoformable liners -- they allow me to use my decades long habits of flexing ankles to control edging skis (88 mm underfoot). I am getting to be a happy downhill skier again!!
Last ski season I started with used pair of Garmont Synergies with thermoformable liners and had really hard time getting back into downhill skiing, even on easiest slopes. Then I got used but almost new pair of Garmont Liberos and then pair of nearly new Garmont Veloces and quickly found I could ski better with either of them than "better" Synergies (using same pair of thermoformable liners in all three). This season I started with Garmont Excursions, mentioned above.
Skis have been 175 cm BD Velvets -124-88-119 mm -- with Voile CRB Hardwire bindings.
Maybe next season I learn much better edge control with those Garmont Synergies --- maybe, but, I will not be counting on that.
I am far from a hard charging tele skier and have only just recently gotten back to skiing intermediate groomed slopes -- having reliable edging has been a major factor in this.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 2274 Location: Washoe Valley, Nevada
Posted: Sat Apr 21, 2012 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: Medium height boots ,suggestions?
polarbear wrote:
Quadzilla wrote:
polarbear wrote:
Hi!
I would need some suggestions of which boots would suit me!
I own scarpa t4 and garmont gara,
and i mostly use the t4, all up to 98mm skis
Everytime i put on the garas, i use them a couple of hours at most
They just feel like they constrict my calvemuscle and disturb the feeling of movement in footjoint!
And my new skis for next season are 115mm underfoot ,so it starts to feel pretty ridiculous with t4:s!
What i want is something that lies in between these two in height
and not to stiff to bend at the toecup!
The only one i can think of is syner-g ,and that one seem discontinued?
So suggestions please!
I think it would be a big mistake to undersize your tele boots as you move up to a 115 underfoot ski. You really need a powerful stout boot to effectively drive skis this big especially when the snow is less than perfect powder. I would look at BD Push, Scarpa T1's and the Garmont modern version of these. Or, you might find your skis will ski you .
The purpose of this thread was to get help sorting out which boots there is that would be somewhere between touring an racing!
I cant see what makes you think i would be interested in new T1 when i own garas ???????
Im not either interested in adapting technicue to higher boots!
I want boots that ends right under my calves .
Im actually doing fine with T4, just wish that they would be stiffer overall, including sole, Never ever felt any reason why a higher boot would have any advantage? I ski 50/50 groomed/offpist
Please spare me more discussions , just help me sort out which boots out there is lower than garas
Edit: Ski info ,Scott aztec 175 carving and scott dozer 185 offpist
7tm power II sti on both
Well I guess you will need to find out for yourself what kind of boot effectively is the right match for a 115 waisted ski especially if the ski is a heavy alpine ski. A Gara and I had a pair years ago is about in the same catagory as a older three buckle T2 except it is way heavier and soft. So it is laughable to compare it to a new T1. New school tele boots are moldable so if you have a large calf or a wierdness in your lower legs the molding should take care of it so you end up with a boot that is lighter, more powerful and more comfortable than your Garas. Or, IMO, forget a ski this big and stay with what you got. _________________ Just Say No To Groomed Snow
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