Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 5700 Location: Colorado Higher Country
Posted: Fri Mar 11, 2011 6:45 pm Post subject:
jellero wrote:
my god, otis and loaf on the same page (literally). this is an overdose of rightiness. it's over? spoiled children? is this how you see this, really? the middle class workers in this country are having their rights stripped, the unions are being crushed by the corporate super rich and the puppets they put in office (walker??) and they are spoiled children for standing up and saying something? a million people being foreclosed on, often illegally by banks propped up with tax dollars and (we/me) should shrug it off and admit loss? an average 72% support the unions while 20% or so support walker's actions, they ram through some revised bill with no public discussion while the dems are gone, illegally and call it law? people are not going to stand for this crap, they aren't right now. this is just the start, wisconsin is the first of 16 states they are trying to pull this in so far.
set, game, match my ass... j
You are funny.
The middle class workers of this country are not being stripped of their rights. Some government workers are having their collective bargaining rights watered down. But since when were such powers rights? They are not.
Who put Walker into office? It was the voters of the State of Wisconsin, not the corporate super rich.
Banks do not illegally foreclose on property. They just want the loans repaid. (That's as far as I'll defend them.)
I don't believe your statistics about union support. At least not in this context.
The Wisconsin legislature did not break any laws in passing the new law. The absent Democrats were cowards who were't doing the job they were elected to do.
The people in Wisconsin will have a choice whether to stay with fiscally responsible government or return to the out of control irresponsibility of the past that got them where they now are.
Kimberley A. Strassel of the WSJ wrote:
Here's the fundamental problem with public-employee unions: They exist to compete with, and undermine, public priorities. The priority of Wisconsin citizens is a state that can provide basic services, encourage private-sector jobs, and pay its bills. Wisconsin public-employee unions, by contrast, were formed to, and exist to, erect a system that showers members with plump pay and benefits, crowding out state services and private jobs. The same disconnect is on display with the TSA.
_________________ otis
Federal policy is dividing society between "those who work for a living and those who vote for a living".
-H.L. Mencken
All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher.
-Ambrose Bierce
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 6334 Location: Ironton, Boyne City, Charlevoix, East Jordan, Salida
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 2:19 am Post subject:
meanwhile next door in michigan, that governor is pushing through new taxes on low income and the elderly in the amount of 1.7 billion so they can give 1.8 billion in tax breaks to corporations. this is just the continuation of the money transfer between the lower/middle/upper classes to the super rich that has been going on in an organized way that i have seen since bush got put in. now that the gop lost the presidency they are using republican governors to destroy the lower classes- going after unions, public schools, all social programs and the dems ability to even register and vote. j
This guy might be a flash in the pan. Talking with fam members from Wisc this week and Mr. Walker is not a particularly popular man. This is coming from conservatives too.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 7098 Location: Breckenridge CO
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 11:53 am Post subject:
My feeling with the Tea Baggers - like all frothing ideologues - was they would over play their hand. So far this seems a very distinct possibility. _________________ Creeds and doctrines are like a raft to get you to the other shore and then to relinquish. Neither cling to the raft or reject it when drowning. Even better, become a strong swimmer.
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 4974 Location: Hol(y)land, MI
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject:
jellero wrote:
meanwhile next door in michigan, that governor is pushing through new taxes on low income and the elderly in the amount of 1.7 billion so they can give 1.8 billion in tax breaks to corporations. this is just the continuation of the money transfer between the lower/middle/upper classes to the super rich that has been going on in an organized way that i have seen since bush got put in. now that the gop lost the presidency they are using republican governors to destroy the lower classes- going after unions, public schools, all social programs and the dems ability to even register and vote. j
My post on the What's up in MI Thread wrote:
Fact: MI has had a structural $1.8 Billion annual budget probelem for the last several years. Yes, that number is correct. The Barry Bucks that covered the last 2 years will only go to the constiuencies that properly buss the emporer's cheeks. I doubt that electing an R will pass that test.
Fact: The restructuring that Gov Snyder is proposing for the MI Buis Tax would remove the Gov Granholm's give away for "Too big to fail" businesses. The restructuring would also remove the surcharge imposed on small & medium businesses that funded the "too big to fail" give away.
Michigan needs to dramatically cut back expenses (austerity program anybody?) & increase revenue.
- The primary target of expense cuttting is in the prison system that takes up a lion's share of the budget & places MI near the top of the list for incarceration costs per prisoner day.
- The primary target of gaining revenue is to get MI out of the top five rankings of unemployment rates. Heck, it'd be nice to be out of the top 2 for once 7 years. Lets face it, unemployed people don't exactly contribute much to the public coffers.
jellero: The tax break that is going to the "Rich" would correct an injustice to & directly benefit YOUR business. Your business could then prosper enough to give my teenage daughter a job. She can then pay MI income tax, just like everyone else. Get past the propaganda. _________________ Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
Joined: 08 Feb 2005 Posts: 3318 Location: Baton Rouge for a while
Posted: Sat Mar 12, 2011 3:55 pm Post subject:
hutguy wrote:
My feeling with the Tea Baggers - like all frothing ideologues - was they would over play their hand. So far this seems a very distinct possibility.
Individual tea baggers might be anti-union, but I doubt that it is a strong motivator. The driver for legislation like this is anti-union money men (ie contributors) like the Koch brothers. _________________ "It's what you learn after you know it all that counts" Earl Weaver
My feeling with the Tea Baggers - like all frothing ideologues - was they would over play their hand. So far this seems a very distinct possibility.
Kinda' like liberal factions did in '06 & '08?
Well, healthcare reform was sort of a core plank. Not sure they "overplayed" in delivering (sorta) what they promised.
It's been justifiably pointed out that union busting was not a central tenet of the tea party. Organized anger and organized labor aren't not necessarily natural enemies.
Joined: 15 Dec 2004 Posts: 9481 Location: Blue Canadian Rockies
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 2:22 am Post subject:
satsuma wrote:
hutguy wrote:
My feeling with the Tea Baggers - like all frothing ideologues - was they would over play their hand. So far this seems a very distinct possibility.
Individual tea baggers might be anti-union, but I doubt that it is a strong motivator. The driver for legislation like this is anti-union money men (ie contributors) like the Koch brothers.
The tea baggers are anti -government and thus anti-government worker and anti-government worker union.
Joined: 06 Dec 2004 Posts: 6334 Location: Ironton, Boyne City, Charlevoix, East Jordan, Salida
Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2011 9:39 pm Post subject:
otis of moab wrote:
jellero wrote:
my god, otis and loaf on the same page (literally). this is an overdose of rightiness. it's over? spoiled children? is this how you see this, really? the middle class workers in this country are having their rights stripped, the unions are being crushed by the corporate super rich and the puppets they put in office (walker??) and they are spoiled children for standing up and saying something? a million people being foreclosed on, often illegally by banks propped up with tax dollars and (we/me) should shrug it off and admit loss? an average 72% support the unions while 20% or so support walker's actions, they ram through some revised bill with no public discussion while the dems are gone, illegally and call it law? people are not going to stand for this crap, they aren't right now. this is just the start, wisconsin is the first of 16 states they are trying to pull this in so far.
set, game, match my ass... j
You are funny.
The middle class workers of this country are not being stripped of their rights. Some government workers are having their collective bargaining rights watered down. But since when were such powers rights? They are not.
Who put Walker into office? It was the voters of the State of Wisconsin, not the corporate super rich.
Banks do not illegally foreclose on property. They just want the loans repaid. (That's as far as I'll defend them.)
I don't believe your statistics about union support. At least not in this context.
The Wisconsin legislature did not break any laws in passing the new law. The absent Democrats were cowards who were't doing the job they were elected to do.
The people in Wisconsin will have a choice whether to stay with fiscally responsible government or return to the out of control irresponsibility of the past that got them where they now are.
Kimberley A. Strassel of the WSJ wrote:
Here's the fundamental problem with public-employee unions: They exist to compete with, and undermine, public priorities. The priority of Wisconsin citizens is a state that can provide basic services, encourage private-sector jobs, and pay its bills. Wisconsin public-employee unions, by contrast, were formed to, and exist to, erect a system that showers members with plump pay and benefits, crowding out state services and private jobs. The same disconnect is on display with the TSA.
Joined: 07 Dec 2004 Posts: 4974 Location: Hol(y)land, MI
Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2011 12:45 pm Post subject:
stevesliva wrote:
JustinB wrote:
hutguy wrote:
My feeling with the Tea Baggers - like all frothing ideologues - was they would over play their hand. So far this seems a very distinct possibility.
Kinda' like liberal factions did in '06 & '08?
Well, healthcare reform was sort of a core plank. Not sure they "overplayed" in delivering (sorta) what they promised.
It's been justifiably pointed out that union busting was not a central tenet of the tea party. Organized anger and organized labor aren't not necessarily natural enemies.
Not overplayed?
- Midnight vote & end of session exit on the unread HCR ring a bell?
- Stim I
- Stim II
- Those 2 wars will be over by October, 2009?
The issue over the unions in WI are related to government worker unions. This is a battle pitched between who is in control, the constituents or the government. I do believe that this is a government empowered by the people, the desire is to keep the situation from reversing.
I also have an issue with contracts that stipulate specific insurance carriers who (ahem) happen to be owned by the union. Benefits should be specified & then put out to competitive bid.
The MI branch of the NEA has an annual $300,000,000 profit from their healthcare plan that:
- Is a Blue Cross/Blue Shield run plan
....(BC/BS can deliver the same plan directly for the $300,000,000 less)
- Has no participant contribution
- Has no deduction
- Is a taxpayer funded lobby of $300,000,000 to influence the very individuals that authorized the funding.... No conflict of interest there eh? _________________ Sh'ma Yis'ra'eil Adonai Eloheinu Adonai echad.
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