[harpo-the-skier]

Is this a tele or alpine ski: AT
Length: 178
Tip width: 112/110
Waist: 79
Tail: 96
Weight in this length: 5lbs for a 171, my 178s are 5.2lbs?
Boots used: Dynafit Zzero C 4
Bindings used: Dynafit Comfort
How many days on the skis: 2
Resort or backcountry: backcountry
Geographical region: Tahoe
Tell us about the terrain you ski: All mountain, not extreme
Do you know how the skis were tuned (bevel): factory - 1/2?
How long have you been skiing: 14 years
How many days a year: 100
Previous ski that you liked: Jak BC, DPS W105, Trab Piuma Freerando
Previous ski you did not like: R:ex
How big are you: 185 lbs, 5'10"
Mostly tele or parallel: parallel

Comments: I am using these skis as my goto spring rig, replacing my Trab Piuma Freerando, the non duo version from 3 years ago. I have been on them for two days, one at a resort to get a feel for them, and one in the backcountry.

My one days at Kirkwood, I skied them off the 6 and 10. I didn't ski them in any bumps but I did ski them off the cornice on top of 6. It was spring conditions, just beggining to soften up they did fine wether in the slush or on ice. They held an edge great on the firm, were plenty damp when hitting piles of slush or frozen tracks, and had tons of rebound to bounce you into the next turn. This latter characteristic was the main difference with the non duo Freerando I had before. I was impressed that Trab maintained the dampness of the wood core ski but added to the livliness. They were also very damp for such a light ski, though I wasn't skiing through bumbs, or deep piles of slush or powder.

My second day I skied the south bowl on Mt. Tallac. They were a joy on the way up, though I used ski crampons to deal with the icy conditions. It was perfect corn on the way down and I was ripping high speed GS turns. Didn't really notice it when I hit slushy ski tracks, of which there were a lot, but I did notice the liveliness again.

I should note that the livliness, dampness, and edge grip of these skis might also be related to the boots I am ussing, the Zzero 4 C, which other reviewers have noted as exceptionaly torsionaly rigid. I would add that they are also longitudinely rigid and helped add to the liveliness of the ski.

My only question is wether this foam core ski will maintain its performance charateristics as long as wood core skis. The aramid core Trab uses in this ski is the same as they use in their high end rando race skis, so I am hopeful it will do well.

Also, I would like to get these skis out in a little powder, where their wider, softer Duo tip is supposed to help keep the tips up. I have my DPS W105's for deep pow, but if I could use these on other winter days, it would lighten my load by 2lbs.

[icsteveoh]

are we talking about the same ski?

http://www.telemarktalk.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=44545&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

[harpo-the-skier]

[Hailey]

Where i can buy ski apparel I live california
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[Graeme]

I have these in 171cm - use them when high ratio of hiking to skiing. Dynafit bindings and Zzero 4PX-TF boots. I agree with much of the above, but not all, maybe due to short length, I usual ski high 170s. Yes, good edge hold, lively, turn on a dime, work well in steeps - but not to me really fun in GS turns, they are twitchy and take some effort and adaptation of technique to make fast round turns. For alround BC skiing, I much prefer my Trab Stevio Freerides, whether it is the wood core, the extra length at 178, or some other characteristic.

[harpo-the-skier]

Yeah, graeme, I have since noticed the twitchyness in difficult conditions. On firm snow or good corn, I still like them, but as the corn turns to mashed potatos, or a crust forms on the corn as the sun goes down or behind a clound, I found my Freerando Lights hard to manage, though that might be my technique.

I have just ordered a pair of Stelvio Light XLs (new this year, 90mm waist, foam core like the Trab I reviewed here). I hope it does better in the tricky conditions I mentioned above.

[Graeme]

what I reckon would be really interesting would be to ski side by side a set of standard Stelvios, and a set of Stevio (non XL) lights - essentially the only difference being honeycomb core vs wood. It is a bit hard to assess which characteristic makes the difference when I am skiing 2 skis of different length and geometry as well as difference cores. Currently I am inclined to stick to wood core in future, but this could be falsely based.

[hdiddy]

s this a tele or alpine ski: AT
Length: 171
Tip width: 110
Waist: 79
Tail: 96
Radius:17m
Weight in this length:
Boots used: Crispi SHiver
Bindings used: Rotte NTN
How many days on the skis: 1
Resort or backcountry: so far resort only... will be doing lots of BC with them
Geographical region: Tahoe
Tell us about the terrain you ski: everything
Do you know how the skis were tuned (bevel): 1.5 side/1 base
How long have you been skiing: 3 years tele + 15 odd years mix of XCD/Snowboard/Alpine
How many days a year: 35
Previous ski that you liked: K2 WorkStinx, Coomba, Head Monster IM82
Previous ski you did not like: Scottybob Bobtails
How big are you: 150 lbs, 5'10"
Mostly tele or parallel: 90% tele

On a whim I decided to try the Freerando's with NTN. Came to the conclusion I liked stiff skis but wanted something lighter. I guessed (and I think correctly) that they would be a good match for NTN.

The entire package comes out being a mid-weight rig. NTNs weight combined with the stiffness of the freerandos was a really nice match. Spent a day doing all sorts of stuff at Northstar to try them. Fast groomers, carving, trees, straightline tucks, even hit several jumps in the park. Skis solid, playful. The lightweight really lets you feel the snow underneath - reminded me of being on XCD gear but with a whole lot more power. With NTNs on them, I don't think they'll get bounced around too badly so chop shouldn't be too bad. The pronounced shovel will probably have more of an effect.

The only weird things I've noticed:
1) The edges grab like crazy for some reason. I beveled the base and sides after mounting, and detuned them quite a bit and still want to grab alot. They certainly dont' have the heft to power through weird icy spots. I'm prob going to detune them further.
2) The ski dimensions cause a little bit of pigeon-toed skiing. The inside ski keeps wanting to wedge but with a little bit more of cowboy knee, the problem goes away easy.
3) It's barely a touch stiffer than my Monsters. So given that along with edges that want to bite, I would say these will be on the unforgiving side.

Good things: Playful, light, easy to throw around. I feel confident they'll do fine in most conditions. I like these - maybe even more than my Monsters. Ski them right and they're a joy, esp if you like to make alot of turns. Bases seem pretty tough. I tried to put alot of texture in them today and my texturing stone has a hard time digging deep into the bases. I think they'll last. Will prob spend the rest of the season on them. More to come.
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[aaron_wright]

^^^^Did you buy them new? The factory tune on Trabs is excellent, why would you file the edges unless they were used and beaten up? Trabs have excellent edge hold, that's why they put a radial tune on the tip and tail edges. I'm just curious, the base grind is also excellent when compared to other skis I've seen that are new.

[hdiddy]

Yes I did buy them new. Yeah the bases were pretty flat - only my Monsters were good when they come in stock. Reminds me how much better non-chinese manufacturing can be. The quality of the bases are really good. A K2 ski would start losing alot of material quickly doing what I did because the base ptex is so soft.

Of course, I didn't realize that the edges might be good until I started on beveling to the way I'm used to. Too late now. It still has excellent edge hold.
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[hdiddy]

Update: Did 3 days of hard skiing on them in hardpack and mostly soft spring conditions. For a while I was kinda unhappy with them. The skis can be unforgiving due to stiffness. Found it easy to get crossed up if I got too low and spread out due to the short length. I probably would've been slightly happier with the 176cm length instead of 171cm. But it's going to be a tradeoff due to stiffness. Thankfully, I ran into another Ttipster yesterday and skied most of the day with him - which helped me take my mind off of criticizing the skis.

Once I started really skiing, the skis were fine. Fairly stable in most cases. At high speed there seemed to be a sort of upper speed limit I think due to the light weight (another reason to go slightly longer?) and side-cut, but the limit is going to be far above any usual skiing I'd do. IOWs, I did it, but they didn't ooze confidence when I did a high speed tuck. It's not terrible, certainly manageable, but I've hard more confidence in a full on DH tuck in most skis. They didn't get squirrely on me, but I felt like one false move things might get dicey. But then again i was on slushy spring snow (with sticky patches) so I guess that should be kept in mind.

OTOH, the light weight makes them easy to whip around. Once I started to ignore the skis and focus on technique they'll ski with stability. If I didn't weight and get my timing correctly, the skis will want to go straight and take me for a ride. Do it right and they'll rip.

They only get bounced around in chop/bumps/stiff snow due to the weight. It'd prob be worse without NTN, but I thought it was bearable. The pin-tail like taper from shovel to tail makes them feel strange in really soft snow. Felt like I'd get into the backseat often - maybe a little too much.

So given this weight and length, I'm most likely going to relegate it to spring skiing only. I might give them another change at pow next season but we'll see. Overall, I'm happy with them, even if mine are a bit short, and they have certain areas when they charge. Get into a situation where they're allowed to play to their strengths (med fast speed, firm conditions) and they're a whole lot of fun. Again, I feel like they're not very forgiving, so you want to have your technique down if you're going to tele them IMO. P-turns wise, they're perform great even in this length.

EDIT: A couple more comments about mounting...
Lately I've been judging good mounts by the way the ski rides switch or handles butters. You can feel the point where the ski pivots and I like it where the balance point is about 1-2" in front of the toes. All the ski mounts that I've liked tend to do butters without too much trouble. Skis that dont' do so well tend to be mounted too far back (my Head Monsters may be a little too far back at -1 cm).

The Trabs are mounted with the toe right at the boot toe mark as SkiTrab suggests and I don't really have any complaints. They do just fine and I can butter them pretty easily. Not sure about some of the "backseat" issues but I think it was just sloppy technique as it went away once I started getting it right, staying on top of the ski and attacking the hill. IMO, the only way they could be more forgiving is if the skis got a little softer but that will probably happen with time as well.
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[hdiddy]

3 more days skiing resorts with these. Sierra spring conditions and lots of ice. I've moved to the rear NTN detent and it's perfect. Moguls, ice, spring slush, you name it. Skis just about any way you want. Narrow waist rolls them on edges very fast. Moving further back make eliminates any edge sensations you might get due to the compound sidecut. I'd say I have it dialed in for myself now. Very happy with the purchase.
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