[Tele Till You're Smelly]

Where is the best article or study showing the importance of having your skis or board come off in an avy? I recall there being a decent statistical survey or something on this.
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Reluctant enthusiast, part-time crusader, half-hearted fanatic

[Missing Link]

I remember a story posted on here prior to the crash - wow - 4 years ago now.

It was by a woman tele skiing in Italy telling about how she was caught, drug down and her knees completely trashed after the event.

I don't know of any studies off hand but those caught and drug into the turbulent phase, unable to get off in the gliding phase, mention they had a tendency to act as anchors.

Hope someone else comes up with something more relevant for you/us.

ML

[Blammo]

A little over 10 years ago I was caught in a slide up 2nd Creek on Berthoud Pass-- slab 8-18" deep, 150ish' wide. Fortunately, I was near the crown when it went. There was no escape as the entire surface of the snow was moving (I was essentially "still" on the surface). I managed to lose one ski while swimming near the surface. As I neared the bottom and came to a stop, I was buried up to my chest. One ski was still on below me and buried in classic avy concrete. I could not move because of this ski. Snow continued to pile on top of me as I was trapped in place due to that one, still attached, ski. I ended up buried. As the slide begn to settle, I could feel the pressure, on the leg with the ski, hyperextending my knee. Fortunately, I escaped (dug out) without injury.

LOSE YOUR SKIS AND POLES AND SWIM FOR YOUR LIFE!!

BTW- the tele skis with Rivas (non-releasable)

[alpendrms]

Hi all....hoping to get some insight and opinion on this subject. I have read several blogs by both Tele and AT skiers that sometimes resulted in heated exchanges regarding g avy safety and whether Tele gear is backcountry worthy at all in avalanche prone terrain. I know that many of us who prefer free heels are doing so on non-releasable bindings AND ski in serious terrain where avalanche is a true threat. Aside from using knowledge and skill to avoid the big slide, and maybe keeping our egos at home so that we turn around "when it just doesn't feel right", what other ways are there to deal with it on Tele gear? I'm sure that the education piece and reading terrain are key, but still...there may be that time when you don't get out of the way and you are caught in it with non-releasable bindings. Are there any techniques or tricks of the trade anyone knows of? Please don't say "buy AT gear instead" or "just deal with the risks" because those really aren't answers. There will always be risk on whatever gear you ski. I was in a slide in Switzerland in '93 on military AT gear....things happened so fast that I could do nothing except try to ski out of it fast. Thankfully, I was near the terminus of the slide. I switched to Tele because I love the turn...so I'm hoping that some of you out there have some good ideas for us, so that I can have a trick up my sleeve if caught in a slide while enjoying my AXL's. PS: will Telebry make an AXL version of their release kit? Thanks for any info....sorry for being long-winded. Happy Thanksgiving!

[Missing Link]

Prior to switching to AT I used a nice rottefella releasable on my teles. If you can't kick your skis off once your in it or if you're gonna regret it.

ML

[telekopter]

here's hoping telebry grants your wish.

i've always stayed with voile's release setup for general knee safety skiing anywhere and avi safety in the bc.

I just released at alta twice in the last week and regretted neither release.

If i could afford telebry, i'd go through the effort to compare weights of the voile CRB vs. telebry and switchback paired up but i just can't afford to buy.

i could be mistaken but i believe telebry has become significantly more INexpensive this year.

again, hope telebry grants your wish for the AXL.
I can't say enough of how nice it is to have releasability.
cheers.
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Oui oui, le ski extreme. Je suis le poseur. . . l'homme de fromage. . .

[telekopter]

here's hoping telebry grants your wish.

i've always stayed with voile's release setup for general knee safety skiing anywhere and avi safety in the bc.

I just released at alta twice in the last week and regretted neither release.

If i could afford telebry, i'd go through the effort to compare weights of the voile CRB vs. telebry and switchback paired up but i just can't afford to buy.

i could be mistaken but i believe telebry has become significantly more INexpensive this year.

again, hope telebry grants your wish for the AXL.
I can't say enough of how nice it is to have releasability.
cheers.
_________________
Oui oui, le ski extreme. Je suis le poseur. . . l'homme de fromage. . .

[skibum]

alpendrms, I always tour with a releasable binding just for the safety reasons you mention. Lots of my tele friends don't wear them and some of my AT friends dial their gear so high the release is pointless. Still, my buddy got buried up to his waist near Winter Park and it was really a challenge getting his legs unburied when his skis wouldn't come off. So I just follow the best advice of the avy pros and use them.

Without turning this into a binding debate, I think you can find a release combo that gives great performance. Two even provide tour modes. If you have specific binding desires, don't forget that Voile makes a CRB release plate that let you put other bindings on as well.

[alpendrms]

Telekopter & Skibum:
Thanks for your perspectives on this. Yeah, I know that things would be safer with release plates, but I just got the AXL's after a long wait for the newly improved model from 22 Designs, so I really don't want to switch. Those bindings aren't cheap! That said....maybe Telebry will come out with something, adding more cost, not to mention weight. I've read something somebody wrote before about an "Avalanche Release System", where you would pull some type of quick release if caught in a slide. If somebody knows anything more about this, please post. I am thinking of rigging something up this Winter and experimenting with a home-brewed quick release. If i successful, I'll certainly pass it on for others to try. I'm sure there's got to be a way. Has anybody ever tried or practiced quickly popping out of the non-releaseable bindings when faced with an imminent avy threat as a sort of immediate action drill? I know that this couldn't work all of the time, but then, what does? Maybe if a drill like this was practiced often enough, so that it's muscle memory and the mechanics of the movement are kept fresh, it could possibly buy you the few seconds you'd need to keep from being anchored underneath. Then swim and fight like He'll to stay on top. Thoughts? Suggestions?

[alpendrms]

Adam asked about release in avalanches, and other folks have commented on the stupidity of using telemark bindings in avalanche country. AT may have a release advantage in avalanches, but it is hardly a reliable one. Avoidance is a better tactic, although it isn’t any more reliable than the release on AT bindings in an avy. I’ve watched this and hereby proclaim that the lack of release on telemark bindings doesn’t appear to have any measurable impact on survivability compared to AT even though one can analytically make a case that it does, or should. In the final issue of Couloir, as my final soapbox to the backcountry world I suggested that binding manufacturers start working on an avalanche release system. I doubt any have given it a second of thought, let alone seconding that thought.

Interestingly, Rottefella has the basic ingredients of an avalanche release system with their NTN binding. Simply pull up on the lever that clamps your boot in place and your boot should flop out of the binding. It is a feature they have not publicly acknowledged exists, let alone promote but I claim it is there.

The above piece is what I'd read about an "Avalanche Release System". It was posted by Craig Dostie on Wild Snow.

[climbhoser]

There's no proof in the reliability of anything...from Avalungs to beacons and float bags. But, I am really enjoying life, and love skiing, so I will take every step I can to mitigate the risk associated. It is a BIG part of why I have moved back towards AT...I just do not feel comfortable with the possibility that skis stuck on my feet will be the biggest mistake I ever make, especially when I can choose to ski something that has the possibility of release.

I can say, too, that my Dynafit rig releases when it's supposed to. I have the DIN at 10, and have come out several times when I get too far back on a pillow or landing a small drop. I have come out when I stuffed my tips in a tree well. Never have I feared for my knees, and I sincerely feel that the forces of an avalanche would be sufficient to pull my skis off.

A few years ago I started getting really worried about my skis staying on my feet. So worried I wasn't sure about skiing backcountry anymore. So, I am really glad to have an option I like that mitigates this. I'd rather ski backcountry than be a tele faithful.

Next purchase is a Float bag. I just keep thinking "Why not? Why would I ski without when I have the choice to ski with? Why take that extra risk?"
_________________
"To me Plastic boots are kind of like a condom on the experience." -light skier-

"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man." -Dr. Johnson-

[Tele Till You're Smelly]

[climbhoser]

[alpendrms]

All valid points for going AT...and I do have that gear, albeit old school stuff....Silvretta 404's on old Hagan Alpin Tours. I still use 'em to ski into ice and alpine climbs. For everything else, I still would rather use my Tele gear just for the great feeling I get when I actually execute good turns on them. I am thinking of a way to rig a rip cord off the back of my AXL's so that I could yank the heel piece free quickly. I will test the rig this Winter.
Even if it works....it won't work ALL of the time....plus it would be already under snow on deep powder days, but it would at least be something that could buy precious seconds. I've used similar things before....in my past life as a soldier, we had quick release systems for lowering the rucksack while parachuting, and I've also used a quick release system to allow me to come free of my thigh straps and do an emergency wet exit while whitewater canoeing.

[climbhoser]