^^^this. Go to the county office, make friends with the GIS guy. Those files are public domain, so he should give them to you anyway, but being friendly helps. You can ask if he'll knock you out a map with that layer and a topo or imagery layer (10 minute project, tops), or just ask for the parcel boundary layer file, then find an alternate GIS guy to build you a map.
The county office you're referring us to, is the corrupt county office that lead to this whole problem. The previous County Surveyor (Elected Official) abused his elected position. He was the person who submitted the 8 claims to the state. Even worse, he's a friend of the Buxtons and just happens to own one of these parcels next to the Buxtons.
"The mystery connection
We still don’t know conclusively which
Salt Lake County employees developed the
eight claims in Big Cottonwood Canyon and
why. How much staff time was used to survey
and document these claims, and by
whom was that time authorized?
Salt Lake County Surveyor Vaughn
Butler bought a little over two acres in
Cardiff Fork at about the same time these
claims were submitted to the state. Butler
also spent the better part of a day waiting to
testify on behalf of Cyle Buxton in a trial-at
which Buxton was convicted-for blading a
road illegally into Day’s Fork. Buxton, once
a landowner himself in Cardiff Fork, is the
son of Verl Buxton, one of the principals
who demanded road access from the Forest
Service. Given these troubling potential conflicts
of interest and the secrecy surrounding
them, the public has an obligation to request
County Attorney David Yocom to investigate
Butler’s involvement with the development
of the claims, and his land purchase in Cardiff Fork"
For a few seasons now I've avoided this area after having a snow machine come at me at high speed and pull away last second. One mistake by the operator and I could have been killed. I contacted the Forest Service and was told they were very familiar with the people involved and the issue, but not much could be done. Contact with the sheriffs office a complete run around.
After reading this thread, I'm now PISSED OFF and ready to attempt to do something!!!!
Alright they own some small sections of Cardiff and have a right to access it, despite their bullshit method of using mining claims with no intent to mine. But a lot of the area is public land or Water Shed and a majority of the terrain that human-powered snow sport enthusiasts prefer to use is on these two previously mentioned recreation easements.
If I were to go to the park behind my house and start screaming at the recreational users that they were trespassing while banishing firearms, pull my truck up on the grass and start driving at the people like I was going to hit them and veer away last second, and last fire off implied warning shots from my backyard with the intent to intimidate the park users to leave, so I can enjoy my back yard without looking over the fence and seeing them. I would make the evening news and serve some time!
This is exactly what these snow machiners are doing.
Gripping on forums, to the sheriffs, and the forest service has accomplished nothing after all of these years. Lets try something different! This is an amazing, world famous, area for ski touring.
I honestly don't know where to start, lets at least try to form a more public approach through some sort of organizing. I've come across Winter Wildlands Alliance: http://www.winterwildlands.org/index.php
I'll start doing some research on where to begin. Let me know if you have any ideas or interest?
x2 on contacting Winter Wildlands Alliance. My experience with WWA is that they deal with issues exactly like this one (watershed/water quality issues, snowmobiles, conflicts between motorized and nonmotorized users, and applying "lessons learned" in one area to an issue in another area).
"The mystery connection
We still don’t know conclusively which
Salt Lake County employees developed the
eight claims in Big Cottonwood Canyon and
why. How much staff time was used to survey
and document these claims, and by
whom was that time authorized?
Salt Lake County Surveyor Vaughn
Butler bought a little over two acres in
Cardiff Fork at about the same time these
claims were submitted to the state. Butler
also spent the better part of a day waiting to
testify on behalf of Cyle Buxton in a trial-at
which Buxton was convicted-for blading a
road illegally into Day’s Fork. Buxton, once
a landowner himself in Cardiff Fork, is the
son of Verl Buxton, one of the principals
who demanded road access from the Forest
Service. Given these troubling potential conflicts
of interest and the secrecy surrounding
them, the public has an obligation to request
County Attorney David Yocom to investigate
Butler’s involvement with the development
of the claims, and his land purchase in Cardiff Fork"[/quote]
I was Vice chair of the Utah Chapter of the Sierra club at the time this article was written, when I approached then County Attorney David Yocum about investigating Vaughn Butler about these land dealings he basicly laughed me off. Obviously there was no point in pursueing this while Lorha Miller has been in office, but now we have a new county attorney coming in. I believe Sim Gill will take these type shenanagins more seriously and given time to settle into offfice may be willing to do something. _________________ It's not about the turn, but rather was it earned?
Thanks for the insights and info Teledown. That shed a whole new light on the situation.
A friend of mine recently told me that she had the honor of being the first female to ride a sled right to the top of Mt. Superior. I asked if she knew that this was totally illegal, to which she replied "I got the Golden Hall Pass from the Buxtons, and besides it was April and nobody was there."
Hmmm.
There seems to be a large dose of Tea Party mentality involved with the Buxton's being hell-bent on not lettin' no damn gubrment tell me whats I can and cants do wiff my OWN property.
Looks like the snowmobilers don't realize they are using the machine as a deadly weapon and you have a right to defend yourself because you have no idea if they are going to veer away from you. In other words, you have a right to protect yourself. Get your permit and start packing. Do you get me sweetheart?
Looks like the snowmobilers don't realize they are using the machine as a deadly weapon and you have a right to defend yourself because you have no idea if they are going to veer away from you. In other words, you have a right to protect yourself. Get your permit and start packing. Do you get me sweetheart?
Such action would have probably guaranteed that I would have been hit and killed, because the driver would have lost lost control coming at me, after the action you're suggesting.
The guy was in his late teens or early twenties and was yelling something about I trespassing on his family land. I was actually on water shed land according to the maps when I discussed it with the forest service.
Joined: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 2014 Location: Salt lake City
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 7:51 pm Post subject:
willis wrote:
Looks like the snowmobilers don't realize they are using the machine as a deadly weapon and you have a right to defend yourself because you have no idea if they are going to veer away from you. In other words, you have a right to protect yourself. Get your permit and start packing. Do you get me sweetheart?
I believe no permit necessary up there when you are protecting yourself from campground bears or assualt, open carry. _________________ Never argue with an idiot, they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience
Joined: 17 Dec 2004 Posts: 131 Location: Lake Bonneville Beachfront
Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:03 pm Post subject:
Lots of bark, little bite overall. garside has been party to many water rights squabbles in UT and SL counties over the last decade, to little efficacy, just as his runs for state and US representation have gone. His part in this debate relates to the water plant comments, and as water rights arguments probably relate to his desire for cottonwood canyons decisions that favor purchasers of far-junior rights that he want s to use for private property development.
Buxtons are loose cannons of a sort, but probably not dangerous. I helped one of their party get un-stuck in Cardiff a few years ago and he was very gracious, inviting me to "ski the property" anytime I wanted. I think of it the same way as if I am fishing private ground next to public waters. Bummer yeah, but it's really a private property issue. If you have lots of heartburn about it, buy it!
that said, use reason when dealing with private property owners. Think of how you would feel if you owned some property in the midst of federally-controlled lands. _________________ And now...let the wild rumpus start!
Think of how you would feel if you owned some property in the midst of federally-controlled lands.
I'm pretty sure I'd feel lucky to have it, or in the event it's effectively worthless, I'd be finding the most tax-advantaged way to donate it to charity.
Bummer yeah, but it's really a private property issue. If you have lots of heartburn about it, buy it!
that said, use reason when dealing with private property owners. Think of how you would feel if you owned some property in the midst of federally-controlled lands.
To clarify, you believe that because the Buxtons own a small patch of land, completely on one side, they are free to self-appoint themselves to be land tyrants and intimidate any recreation user anywhere in the Cardiff drainage proper, even they're on the Forest Service and Salt Lake City Corporation allowed recreation easement land?
You believe it's appropriate for off-duty officers to be rewarded snowmobiling privileges by the Buxtons, in return they abuse their position of public trust to intimidate recreation users who are often not even near the Buxton property, be cause they don't own a small patch of land adjacent to the public recreation easements?
But if I were to purchase something up there, I would then be free of my neighbors harassment, when I skied on the adjacent public recreation easements? This is not just a "private property issue"!
I'll share an example of why it's not just a "private property issue" and and example of how they harass skiers elsewhere in the Cardiff drainage. In the last few season, skiers have been ticketed and cited for using the road (attached picture below) by the for mentioned law enforcement officers. The issue here is that they have placed "NO TRESPASSING" signs on the road and have claimed it to be private property, but they also have made public arguments that this same road is a "STATE ROAD" here:
Dr. Kevin Tolton is the author of the above state road link, author of the attached letter that began this whole thread, and landowner along with the Buxtons who have had skiers cited for trespassing the vary same road they argue is a state road. Frankly, when convenient for them it's a state road, but when it comes to their hatred of other backcountry users the road and whole drainage is private property. Zack Buxton stated, "80% of cardiff fork canyon is private property..." in response to this online article:
80% of Cardiff Fork being private property is a massive exaggeration. Keep in mind that SLC Corp is the majority private land owner in Cardiff. The remaining private land owners, I believe, are actually less than 10% of the land in the whole Cardiff drainage. I also believe if we were to GPS every trespassing sign up there and upload it with the map data of the eight private inholdings, they would be place well past the properties in the recreation easements!
I also believe if we were to GPS every trespassing sign up there and upload it with the map data of the eight private inholdings, they would be place well past the properties in the recreation easements!
A great idea. Put the computer down now, and go start the process. _________________ "Well, I sure don't know what I'm going for...but I'm gonna go for it, for sure."
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