[Baaahb]

It seems to me that spring snow needs to go through a "wet period" where the snow settles and some water drains out before it can turn to good corn. Is this fact or fallacy? Or do spring conditions just depend on the weather at that time (cold freeze nights/warm days)?

[cesare]

Certainly drainage is part of the process that creats a supportive surface of corn. I think this is more true of a continental snowpack that is lower density, especially in lower layers. We often have hollow corn, where your tails sink in deep with every turn, trapping you like crud. Even with drainage, it still might never firm up. Butin some maritime snow climates, I have seen new snow consolidate and corn up in two nights. It is a trick that I am not sure I can fully explain because my understanding has always been that it takes repeated melting and freezing cycles for the grains to grow to the size that creates magical corn on the surface.
_________________
Many things on my mind,
Words in the way.

-- Sly Stone --

[hemas]

OK, now I'm lost...

So some one who has skied both here in Europe (Scandinavia preferably) and in 'Mericas can hopefully clear this out.

Is CORN ('Merican term) same as FIRN (used mostly in Scandinavia, but also in the Alps)?

[Baaahb]

Corn snow is big-grained snow that develops on the ground through a cycle of cold nights and warm days. Called corn (I think) cause the grains kind of look like (small) grains of corn.

[hemas]

[Baaahb]

you have exhausted my knowledge on the topic of corn.....

hardpack is the layer you refer to. also called bulletproof

cement is the thick wet snow that often dumps in the Sierras....the reference not being to hardened cement, but to the consistency of wet cement

through some mysterious process, bulletproof hardpack can turn to corn.....

[hemas]

[Randy]

I usually think of "firn" as the hard summer snow that exists on high snowfields and eventually becomes incorporated into a glacier.

In my mine "corn" is granular snow (e.g. snow that has melted and refrozen) i.e. each grain is now a small ice pellet. Ideal corn conditions are in the spring with warm sunny days, but cool nights. So each night the surface refreezes, but during the day the sun softens the surface -- but no more that about 3-4 inches.

"Hero" corn is the perfect condition when there is a very smooth firm base, but the sun softens the top inch or two to allow easy edging.

Earlier in the season -- before the sun has consolidated the base and the snow is still a mixture of granular and crystalline snow -- there is no firm base -- so you sink deeper into heavy goo -- another condition is when it stays too warm at night -- so that no refreezing occurs -- such conditions lead to "bottomless mush" and "Slurpy skiing" -- which while more managable with today's superfat skis are still less fun that true corn snow.

[cesare]

By definition, firn is glacial snow that has survived an entire ablation season. It is not necessarily corn but usually it is.
_________________
Many things on my mind,
Words in the way.

-- Sly Stone --

[stef]

Cesare is right. But in german it is common to call corn snow conditions firn conditions. But in Switzerland we do not call it firn, but "sulz". For the germans that means slush, but not for us. We do not have any word for wet snow because we know when to be back... .
So yes firn as you are using it, is corn.
And cement is not really concrete, since cement is gooey and concrete is hard.
We also call breakable crust carton (I think like the french)....

[powderpond]

[skifreeK]

You mean it's not this?

[Tri-Ungulate]

wonder what the Inuit term is
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[Gary Brill]

I don't think the Inuit's grow corn.

Cesare: